No soap or shampoo?

[Nightfalls]

i have been thinking about dropping all the stuff i wear like deodorant shampoo etc. but i can not see myself doing it and not smelling like a rotten bag of ass. I work outside all day in 90-120 degree weather (depending on if the jet engines are running). I get the pleasure of having jet exhaust blown on me, jet fuel spilled on me, jet cleaner and chemicals all over me. At the end of the day, nothing feels better then scrubbing all that crap off and getting nice and clean. I think i could stop the shampoo thing, especially since i have pretty hardcore dandruff. But it would be a bit too much to stop using deodorant and body wash i think. The people i work with know when you stink (one of the guys i work with has become rather stinky recently) and it reflects on you and your professional attitude.

Also, some of the stuff i work with has been known to cause cancer (see Turco Aircraft Cleaner) so i think its best i keep up with the washing for now

[morgane_snowy_owl]

Hello Nightfalls,

Wow, it sounds like your job is pretty physical and intense! I can completely understand that you need to feel clean after a hard day's work. And of course, between the carcinogen ingredients in commercial soap and the carcinogen ingredients in jet fuel and such, I'd also probably choose the lesser evil!

In your case, I think a body brush would be even more essential. During the day, your pores absorb all those chemicals, especially given that you sweat a lot. It's really important to help your lymphatic system get rid of all this, and washing your skin with a good lather won't do it. Brushing will.

As for BO concerns, I think there are still other options than using commercial products. For example, people here commented about using cornstarch mixed with some essential oils instead of deodorant. Their own personal mix has even become part of who they are, because people notice and love the smell and identifies it to them.

I'm absolutely sure you could come up with a nice, masculine, fragrance!

I use a good quality oil to which I add a few drops of essential oils. I rub it on my whole body after a shower or bath. That too, combined to the brushing-rinsing (and using a tiny bit of olive oil soap on the particularly smelly or sweaty parts) would take care of the smell.

As for your hair, Katie seemed pretty clear that, after the greasy period has settled, giving your hair a good rinse is supposed to take care of all kinds of smells. She mentioned getting rid of smoke smell that way, and that's a tough smell too...

Anyway, it's just an opinion!

[celticmodes]

Ok, so I found this topic interesting from the get go. Being raised on soap and shampoo and deodorant, I never considered not using it. Actually I've had to adjust to some Indian co-workers that don't follow the same hygiene routine as I do and that has only reinforced my belief in cleanliness. After thinking it through, I realize that cleanliness and soap are not mutually exclusive.

I thought I'd at least give it a go since I've suffered from scalp problems my whole life. I wondered if the shampoo was hurting more that helping. Here is what I found to my surprise. Baking soda realllllly cleans. Too much so for me at first....I mean squeaky clean and unmanageable.

The second time I tried, I cut back on the amount of baking soda and I also made a rinse from vinegar that I soaked overnight with slices of ginger, lime juice, and basil leaves (since that's what I had on hand). My hair was soft and shiny after that. I also realized that I don't need to wash it every day. I didn't this morning. I just ran water over it in the shower and brushed it with my new soft boar bristle brush. My hair feels great. No product, no soap. Joy. I think over time I will find the minimum amounts necessary to do the job.

I can't see myself not using water and the soda/vinegar to control the amount of oil but I'm glad that I don't have to shampoo every day and my scalp seems to be clearing up. Another good thing I noticed is that the vinegar/lime juice acts as a natural hydroxy solution to soften dead skin cells. I use it on my face and don't need to use soap. I leave enough of the natural oils on my skin (since I'm not stripping it off with detergent) that I only supplement with a little olive oil extract when I get out of the shower.

This is cool. Thanks for bringing up the subject.

[morgane_snowy_owl]

Hi celticmodes!

So happy that you've discovered the no-poo lifestyle! The environment, and your body, will thank you!

I LOVE your idea of a herb-infused rinsing vinegar. I read in a book that using apple cider vinegar is really good on the hair, as it gets it rid of all the hairstyling products and such. I've been able to go through doing nothing but good thorough brushing since Wednesday last week, and tomorrow I'll allow myself a good water-only wash. Tonight, I'll prepare a nice herbal blend for an apple vinegar rinse...

I chose the "cold turkey" option to start with because, according to Katie, your scalp produces too much sebum because shampoo cleans it too well, too much. So after each wash, it has to compensate. According to her, and other sources, if you clench your teeth and only rinse it with water once in a while, the greasiness period won't last as long, because your scalp will "get it" quicker... and start producing juuuust the amout of sebum it needs. Rinsing with water and vinegar does strip off the sebum, so the scalp compensates... it's a vicious circle.

...though I don't blame you, the greasiness is just ridiculous right now...

However, there's a man here who tried it and after two weeks he was back to normal... but not to shampooing!

[WisdomMagpie]

Okay so i have just spent the last half hour reading this thread and being fascinated by all the posts. I have been tring to reduce my 'chemical' usage over recent years as much as possible and the idea of no shampoo has got me really fired up and determined to give it a go. I just have a couple of questions though (and apologies if they have already been asked and i have missed the posts):-

1. I am considering having dreadlocks and have read some comments on various sites about the necessity of washing them ...can anyone here comment on how the no shampoo regime would impact on dreadlocks ?
2. How do swimming baths (i.e. chlorine etc) effect shampoo free hair?
3. I have two young children and wondered about them going shampoo free too ...and any advice on natural head lice treatments / repellants (at the moment i am using a conventional proprietary tea tree repellant shampoo).
5. What do you tell hairdressers when you go for a cut and blow?!!
4. Also can anyone recommend natural facial cleansers / toners. I tend to get very spotty and greasy if i don't use certain ones but i am conscious that they are loaded with chemicals and probably stripping everything natural off my skin. Do i need to take the same cold turkey approach as with shampoo and go through the spotty phase until my skin restores its natural balance?

Looking forward to joining all the other successful 'non-shampooists' out there!!

Love and Bright Blessings,

WisdomMagpie

[katie bridgewater]

1. I am considering having dreadlocks and have read some comments on various sites about the necessity of washing them ...can anyone here comment on how the no shampoo regime would impact on dreadlocks ?

I don't think it would be easy with dreads. Dreads will stop the oils from moving down the hair shaft. I imagine wetting would be partially effective, but then they would become dry and brittle, while the scalp may become greasy and dirty as dust and such stick to the grease. I have known lots of people over the years with dreads, and I'm sure some of them spent little or no time keeping their hair clean. That's fine if you live in a community of similar people but not so easy if you work in a modern, sanitised environment with people who dowse themselves in chemicals in order to feel clean, and who fear dirt and bacteria are out to get them, because the TV tells them so...

2. How do swimming baths (i.e. chlorine etc) effect shampoo free hair?

I go swimming loads. I just swim and shower. End of story, no shampoo, just water. My local baths are UV treated so the amount of chlorine is only slightly higher than in tap water. It doesn't really affect my hair - hair varies in greasiness naturally and getting it wet can make it go either way, but it soon settles down again.

3. I have two young children and wondered about them going shampoo free too ...and any advice on natural head lice treatments / repellants (at the moment i am using a conventional proprietary tea tree repellant shampoo).

As a teacher, I have always been very careful to avoid head-to-head contact with my little charges and I've been very successful for 12 years at avoiding the dreaded head-lice. However, moving in pagan and festival circles I have found, to my disappointment, that pagans are not very careful and that head-lice are all too present. We have brought home 'visitors' from no less than 2 pagan events just this year...

After extensive no-shampoo research, we now have an electric nit comb (20 quid from Boots) which we used to get rid of them. It takes 14 days of combing dry hair, and no chemicals or treatments are required. We now use it after every event where we have been hugged by random strangers in the hope that we can avoid the trauma again...
The alternative is to do the conditioner combing thing but that involves lots of chemicals, wetting hair daily for a fortnight and loads of hassle!

5. What do you tell hairdressers when you go for a cut and blow?!!

I haven't been to a hairdresser in 15 years so afraid I can't help you there...

4. Also can anyone recommend natural facial cleansers / toners. I tend to get very spotty and greasy if i don't use certain ones but i am conscious that they are loaded with chemicals and probably stripping everything natural off my skin. Do i need to take the same cold turkey approach as with shampoo and go through the spotty phase until my skin restores its natural balance?

I use nothing at all on my face except occasional olive oil soap. You will find that if you stop using shampoo the skin on your face will thank you too - it has also been stripped of its natural oils. I found the skin on my cheeks and forehead were greatly improved when I stopped putting crap on my face. They improved further when I stopped shampooing. I continued to get bad spots around my mouth until I switched to Weleda salt toothpaste. All other toothpastes contain foaming agents and / or talc which are nasty. (Even most of the Weleda range have talc in). It turns out that much of my bad skin was caused by foaming agents present in pretty much every shampoo and toothpaste available on the high street.

Diet has a great deal to do with skin and hair greasiness too - once you get off the shampoo, you will find its easier to see how your body responds to different foods as you will no longer be masking any oiliness / dryness with artificial substances and soaps.


Good luck Wisdom Magpie - I hope you decide to go for it. I went cold turkey over 10 years ago and I've never looked back!

[morgane_snowy_owl]

Hi guys,

Just to let you know, I went cold turkey and stayed 6 weeks without shampooing. I brushed my hair, as recommended, with a boar bristle brush to spread the sebum all the way to the tips. I allowed myself once rinse a week with water only.

Well, after 6 weeks my hair was really disgusting. I had to wear a headscarf at all times and my husband was really starting to miss my hair. And it was starting to smell like sebum. The oiliness never cleared, so after 6 weeks I allowed myself a good thorough shampoo to finally clear it.

The good news is, I can now stay 7 days without shampooing, and before I had to shampoo every three days. So the "shampoo more, get oilier hair" theory is true and I'm glad I went 6 weeks without shampooing because it definitely cut down the sebum production.

But the boar bristle brush definitely makes things worse for me. I really don't think the sebum would have ever cleared with just brushing or rinsing, there was just not the tiniest improvement in 6 weeks (and I did wash the brush!). The only way I can last 7 days without shampoo is if I don't brush my hair too much and even then, I only use a comb. If the sebum spreads from root to tip, it kills my curls, my hair becomes lifeless, heavy, oily... and stays that way no matter how long I wait before I shampoo.

I'll start doing cardio more often starting next week, so I'll sweat more and that will increase my sebum production. I'll probably have to rinse my hair with water afterwards in order to last 7 days without shampoo. And when I shampoo or shower, I only use liquid castile soap with essential oil (my own blend), so I feel very at ease with that, chemical-wise.

So WisdomMagpie, do search the web for tips on going shampoo free or soap free, there are loads in this thread, but in the end you're going to have to work with trial and error and find a routine that fits your body and hair.

Morgane

[Teileag]

Hi everybody,

I'm sorry it didn't work out so well for you, Morgane. As you say, it might depend on the person... I stopped using shampoo in Jnauray and I'm very happy with my hair. I brush still quite often (I ride a bike and the helmet squashes it all down on my skull )and rinse with water about once a week and it looks very good, a lot more curly than with shampoo and whatnot... Personnally I am very happy because I avoid all these more or less toxic substances and have of course a lot less waste now ... I would encourage everybody to at least give it a go and see what happens!

[Silverleaf_Willow]

I will be getting laid-off from my job in about a month's time. With no work for 3 or 4 months (therefore no exposure to chemical fertilizers, pesticides or herbicides) I'm preparing to give the no-soap or shampoo lifestyle a proper trial. As it will be winter and the air will be colder and drier I expect I will have less problems with sweat and/or oil build-up, although I could be wrong.
I did find a boar bristle brush and already it has tamed a lot of the frizz that I usually deal with when using a plastic bristled brush.
Will let you know in the spring if the trial run is successful.

also, I wanted to post something to this thread so it doesn't get pruned too soon

[Teileag]

That's great news, Silverleaf Willow... but I hope you'll find a good job soon, too! Keep us posted! I started in January and am very happy with the results...

[Silverleaf_Willow]

I hope you'll find a good job soon

Hello Heike,
My lay -off is only temporary. I work at a tree and shrub nursery so the work is seasonal. I will be returning to my job at the beginning of March. I really like where I work (except for the chemicals used there).
I always look forward to having my winters off so I can devote my time to my studies and move forward in the gwers.

[Nicholaas]

I'll start doing cardio more often starting next week, so I'll sweat more and that will increase my sebum production. I'll probably have to rinse my hair with water afterwards in order to last 7 days without shampoo.

That's the issue I ran into with the no soap thing, too. When I work out (3-4 days of intense exercise a week), I sweat like soaked sponge. I have, however, found a happy balance of soap/no soap washing. I now wash my face and hair with goat's milk soap every other day, and on the off days I rinse in a cold water shower (on top of my daily neck-down washing).

My hair still looks and feels clean and soft, and never gets too oily or dirty.

For me, it's all about balance.

[Teileag]

Oh, that's excellent, Silverleaf Willow! So many people lose their jobs, I thought it had happened to you...

[echoe]

anyone tried the drinking nettle tea to keep their hair colored brown? I knew a woman who claimed to do this. Her hair looked nice. But every time she stopped drinking the nettle tea, her hair went back to gray.

[MiriamSPia]

Interesting: especially the following points:

1) nettle infusions ["tea"] may cure/restore hair from gray to brown.
2) people are not all the same and the way to best groom oneself seems to vary. One person does better without using shampoo and lots of brushing, someone else needs to use less brushing or totally different bristles and a different frequency of water-rinsing or shampoo.
3) Some people's bodies adjust well to not using soap or shampoo whereas others really don't. If they don't wash they get disgusting despite best efforts to find natural solutions.

To my own surprise, when I was caught without soap or shampoo I found that medium temperature water and salt can be a substitute as salt can help move oils. Luckily, I was only forced to do that for a week or so, but I found it really helped release some greasiness from my hair and to remove some of the stinkier "funk" type of body odors without leaving a perfume stench behind.

I am one of those people who cannot handle it if I wash too frequently or using harsh cleansers. Its also bad if I don't wash enough but what is enough for some is painfully excessive for me. Also, how much I need to wash varies with my menstrual cycle, diet, amount of exercise, sexual activity and how my body reacts to the water temperature that I use.

[Alosel]

Hi, I just wanted to give an update. It's been March since I decided to for-go shampoo and soap. I've only used shampoo once since then (around August) and that was due to the effects to too much alcohol, which I since given up also.

Soap-wise, I used to wash down with soap everyday, but now after a few months of experimenting with washing with and without, varying with weeks/months intervals, I've decided to resume using soap a few times a week but only with olive-oil soap, especially during Winter when my house was so cold, I was wearing many layers and therefore sweating a lot more. On the plus side of using soap, I'm well on my way to making some merself (people, it's dead easy! This guy has really good videos and recipes: http://candleandsoap.about.com/). I also use body butter, made by a local lady, so the ingredient are pretty much shea butter, cocoa butter, olive oil and essential oil (also easy to make!), but apart from the skin-enhancing properties, it's softly scented so it smells of the butters, which is nice

My hair is healthier, no doubt. I've still got a dandruff issue, but it's vastly improved since prior to using shampoo, so I'm still looking for ways to improve that generally.

I use a PitRok as recommended by Kate, and I haven't looked back. The stuff is wonderful. It completely neutralises BO, so I'm quite happy about that.

So even if I haven't complete gotten rid of cleaning products, I've gotten rid of harmful chemicals completely, and I'm happy about that. I'm also happy by how much healthier I feel.

[grayjk]

One way of keeping clean (if you find yourself wishing to shampoo between showers) without wasting water is to use dry shampoo. It's a powder, and you work it into your hair, then comb it out, and it takes the oil and dirt out with it. If you're worried about the chemical content of dry shampoo, you can actually use corn starch. It'll leave your hair feeling soft, just make sure to brush it all out or your hair will have a whitish pigment to it from the powder.

[druidling]

as druids shouldnt we be the ones making the soap and shampoo?
thats my take on it but as Im just a druidling Ill stick to the organic shampoo that I found in the supermarket. Its so much cheaper than the stuff from the health food store and has less bad chemicals too.

[Silverleaf_Willow]

Spring cleaning time as I get ready to return to work at the tree and shrub nursery.
As I'm cleaning the tub and shower I find my bottle of shampoo, still one quarter full that I've been using for the last year. I've used 12 ounces of shampoo in the last 13 months. It's good shampoo, from a small home-based health business, made with all natural and organic ingredients.
I did not manage to stop shampooing and conditioning my hair completely, but as I've only used the product in my hair three times over the last four months, I'm calling it a success

[Aigeann]

as druids shouldnt we be the ones making the soap and shampoo?
thats my take on it but as Im just a druidling Ill stick to the organic shampoo that I found in the supermarket. Its so much cheaper than the stuff from the health food store and has less bad chemicals too.

Welcome to the Board, druidling! Thanks for your thoughtful post.

Blessings, Aigeann