No soap or shampoo?

[Aigeann]

One way of keeping clean (if you find yourself wishing to shampoo between showers) without wasting water is to use dry shampoo. It's a powder, and you work it into your hair, then comb it out, and it takes the oil and dirt out with it. If you're worried about the chemical content of dry shampoo, you can actually use corn starch. It'll leave your hair feeling soft, just make sure to brush it all out or your hair will have a whitish pigment to it from the powder.

Welcome to the Board, Grayjk. Thanks for participating!

Blessings, Aigeann

[wyeuro]

another good reason for not using soap is that even the natural ones strip the skin of its natural oil layer so that the volatile oils, pheromones and aromatics that the skin produces as part of its communication with other people and animals, so that a whole dimension of communication is lost. there's a loss of olfactory acuteness too, since the chemical smells are neither nice nor intelligible to the body. this is subtly important among people - we know how much natural skin perfume can enhance sex, but observe it less, while responding just as much to the way it affects conversation in non-sexual situations. but when you are working with animals, the difference not washing away the pheromones of communication makes is very pronounced.

when i go to places where natural skin perfumes are found offensive (e.g., a town or gathering of people) if i come home smelling of soap my goats become anxious and nervy until my skin perfume returns to normal.

of course, if you are so sick that your natural skin perfume smells awful, you should either stay home until you are well again (compare any other animal - healthy ones smell gorgeous, sick ones smell unwholesome). but allowing that tv advertising has brainwashed most people into achieving a really sincere disgust of the smell of humans, especially signs of life, like sweat, and armpit pheromones, antibacterial herbs are much pleasanter than laboratory chemicals for beautifying skin odours. scented pelargoniums are among the best, longest lasting of these, and the geranium oil you get in bottles is beautiful. best yet, it makes people like you, whereas soap and deodorant are obstacles we've blandly learnt to overcome.
wyverne /|\

[grayjk]

3. I have two young children and wondered about them going shampoo free too ...and any advice on natural head lice treatments / repellants (at the moment i am using a conventional proprietary tea tree repellant shampoo).

One thing I've heard of, that my mom did to me once when we didn't have lice shampoo, was to cover my head in vegetable oil, then put a showercap on tight. Appearently it's supposed to drown some of the lice, although obviously it would cause the problems with oiliness that most people on this board are trying to avoid... Then again, that might be a solution to the "dry and brittle" problem that your dreads may develop, if you soak them in olive oil or vegetable oil. don't know for sure, you'd have to ask someone who knew more about hair... I'll ask my mom tomorrow i guess, she was a hairdresser at some point...
Another thing that might work is the apple vinegar shampoo that has been mentioned elsewhere on this board. I don't know about apple vinegar, but most vinegar has an obnoxious smell with vapors that seem to almost be palpable. That might scare off the lice in a similar way to how bug spray and off candles work. Again, not for sure here, but i don't think it would hurt to try the vinegar shampoo next time you run into lice. But of course, you'll probably want to do the comb thing too, cause i know how aggravating sitting around with head lice is, and you don't want to sit for too long just hoping that the shampoo is working.

Hopefully this advice helps some, although I'll admit, I'm pretty new to the Druidry thing, so I'm pretty clueless on all-natural stuff. I've been Americanized pretty effectively by the first nineteen years of my life. I'll try to get back here soon if i remember to ask about the olive oil conditioner idea...

Love, Peace, Chicken Grease,
grayjk

[illion]

I've heard that tea tree oil should be effective at getting rid of lice.

My son has not started school yet, so it has not been a problem for us, but my shampoo is an organic one with juniper and tea tree and they say that this shampoo should prevent a lice attack, so I will start using it on him as well.

[katie bridgewater]

I posted earlier on this thread, but in a nutshell, in over a decade of no hair products ( and I really do put NOTHING!!! on my hair) I can honestly say the best way of eliminating headlice is the electric nit-comb, available from Boots chemists for £19.99. You don't even need to get your hair wet, it is quick, easy, doesn't smell, daily combing for does the job and it lasts for years.

I also now use it as a precaution once after each event we attend to eliminate any unwanted passengers and I haven't picked up headlice from any camp or gathering since (pagan camps can be as dangerous a classrooms... )

I enjoy this thread a lot, hearing everyone's experiments with kicking hair products, but I still think that all the rinses, powders, food-stuffs-in-your-hair ideas are not necessary for well conditioned, healthy, nice-smelling hair! Either that or I am really a smelly scarecrow and none of my friends can bring themselves to tell me!

[grayjk]

One thing I've heard of, that my mom did to me once when we didn't have lice shampoo, was to cover my head in vegetable oil, then put a showercap on tight. Appearently it's supposed to drown some of the lice, although obviously it would cause the problems with oiliness that most people on this board are trying to avoid... Then again, that might be a solution to the "dry and brittle" problem that your dreads may develop, if you soak them in olive oil or vegetable oil. don't know for sure, you'd have to ask someone who knew more about hair... I'll ask my mom tomorrow i guess, she was a hairdresser at some point...

So I asked, and she said that it was olive oil. She said that it would probably work as a conditioner, but you'd run into the problem of having to wash it out of your hair... She wasn't sure if the apple vinegar would do that well or not. She did say that if you did the oil-showercap treatment, that would kill most lice, then the vinegar would loosen the eggs from being stuck to your hair, making a comb-through much more effective.

Of course, it sounds like a number of people on this thread have completely forgone shampoo and conditioner, and aren't too much worse for the wear. I would probably personally only use the olive oil conditioner if i found my hair abnormally dry or brittle, instead of the "once a shower" practice that most people who use conditioner use. Seems to me that taking preventive measures against your natural hair doesn't make much sense.

[Corwen]

Most people's hair makes its own oil, so all you need for shiny hair is to comb or brush your hair enough to spread the oil from the root where it is made down the hair shaft. If you shampoo a lot you strip this oil out, so your scalp overcompensates by making more oil. Then when you stop shampooing suddenly your hair becomes greasy because all this over-produced oil is there. However after a few years of not shampooing I find in the summer especially my hair can be a little dry (I have almost Afro frizzy hair), so I rub a bit of olive oil, coconut oil or best of all jojoba oil in (maybe a teaspoon), it helps to repair the sun damage. There is no need to shampoo it out afterwards because hair is meant to have a bit of oil in it. Shampoo does no good to your hair at all and is completely unnecessary. Conditioner is a cocktail of amazingly complex chemicals which stay on your hair and in your body for ages, and all to replace the natural oil you just shampood out!

With regards to lice, the only sure fire prevention in my long experience of hippy life is to tie your hair back when hugging folk at the end of a camp or if playing with kids, and try not to touch heads with anyone. None of the tea tree, kassia or other things have stopped me getting lice. Once you have lice, the only sensible method to kill them is the electric nit comb. I have tried the method of saturating your hair in oil for a week and wearing a shower cap over it, and it doesn't reliably work. Neither tea tree or kassia, kill lice once you have them. If you have the patience then you can condition your hair and comb it through wet with a nit comb, and this will work if you do it every single day for two weeks. By then though you have exposed yourself to a massive dose of all the horrible chemicals in conditioner, truly dreadful ingredients, and even if it is called 'organic' this just means the 1% of herbal ingredients are organic, the 99% of petrochemical derived shite is still petrochemical derived shite....

So if you have lice or have kids get a £20 electric nit comb, it works on dry hair, is painless, kills the adults instantly and the the eggs too, once every two days for two weeks and its done, no trauma or having to expose yourself to conditioner or wear a shower cap for a week (let alone expose yourself to nit lotion, which is insecticide dissolved in isopropanol- commonly used as engine degreaser).

[katie bridgewater]

One more thing about lice...
If we have to take a life, it's probably better to do it quickly, and with as little stress or trauma as we can. All the methods using oil and chemicals suffocate them slowly (if at all), cause slow and lingering death to creatures who are living and raising young and just going about their business. I wouldn't buy meat slaughtered this way, would you?
I don't want to kill anything just for being where I don't want it to be, but in the case of lice, I still think it has to be done. IMO a quick and clean shock which kills instantly is the least bad way I have found to inflict death on lice-people, and I try to remain mindful of what I have done for my own comfort and survival.

[Jake]

I think the quickest and easiest way to get rid of lice (or for that matter to avoid shampooing, not shampooing, getting greasy or dry hair, brushing, combing and all that) is to shave your head.

It's really not such a big deal. It grows back, if you let it. Though you may find it so liberating that you keep your hair shaved or buzzed very short. My hair used to be well below my waist. The first time I buzzed it all off it felt like I'd amputated a limb. But within a few days it felt like I'd been freed from an enormous weight, both physically and psychologically.

Occasionally I let it grow back in (it's getting pretty long right now), and once it even grew back to a decent ponytail length. But eventually I buzz it all off again because it's just so much more comfortable and practical. No fuss, no muss.

[wyeuro]

derris dust kills lice very effectively in a few minutes with no survivors to contend with. it is sold in cardboard tubes for shaking over tomato plants threatened by aphids. it's low toxicity to humans and most animals but must be kept away from fish and will kill bees, so is a last resort in gardens. a better cure for both is sound nourishment and a healthy lifestyle, though realistically, if you are hugging lousy-headed people a lot, derris dust is a quick fix. tousle the dust thoroughly through your hair and leave it until you can feel no more lice and can find only dead ones. then brush it out thoroughly and run a fine tooth comb through to remove the dead nits. derris kills nits and all. next time you wash your hair, remember not to let the water you use contaminate waterways where fish may be swimming. it biodegrades rapidly so return it to the soil via your compost heap. i haven't tried pyrethrum, but it's easy to grow and powdered fine with fine talc or similar would no doubt work as well.

i well remember my mother and her slightly older neighbour telling me about the way they cared for the long, lustrous tresses they were so proud of in the 1900s to the 1920s, when they were young women. they rubbed olive oil into the scalp and combed it right through the full length of the hair which was then tightly coiled around curling rags and wrapped in a towel. a plastic shower cap wouldn't 'breathe' as well, but you might need to protect pillow slips with oil-proof cloths.

next day it was washed in water as hot as could be borne with hard castille soap, and rinsed till the water ran clear. in the first rinsing water, an acid helped to remove all traces of soap, but could alter hair colour. lemon juice bleaches, vinegar darkens. canny girls used this property to go or stay blonde or to enrich the highlights of dark hair - lemon juice for blondes, vinegar for brunettes.

the final rinse, to make it soft and shiny and sweet smelling was with rosemary water. boil a small saucepan of rainwater (about four cups) and then throw in a large handful of rosemary to steep until the water is cool. add the liquid to a two gallon bucket of warm rinsing water. using a large jug, pour it through making sure you get through to the scalp. towel dry by patting and not too much rubbing and ideally get some sunshine while it is drying. rain brings out the lustre, too.

i've tried it, but believe me, if your body is badly nourished, and you are producing sick skin exudates, you may have trouble metabolising the oil. as a teenager trying to mature on a diet of fish fingers, white bread and highly toxic tinned sausages, with refined sugar to make it nice, i found my hair was too oily after the treatment, attracted dirt and grit and smelt bad and it took ages to recover. the basis for this beautiful hair was the healthy lifestyle our ancestors lived.

i've found that dry scalp and dry hair are best remedied by health measures designed to improve the way your whole body metabolises fats and oils. cholesterol problems for example disappear when you eat whole grains instead of refined flour. just adding sunflower seeds can help all sorts of skin disorders as well as a range of other health problems.

i've kept angora goats for their fleeces for years, and the beauty of the fleece was directly related not to the 'hoss-gloss' products of the veterinary cosmetics and pharmaceutical industry but the quality of the feed in the paddock.

happy hair-care
wyverne /|\

[Teileag]

Hi guys,
I couldn't give advice on getting rid of lice because I only had to,deal with them onec when my kids got them. As they are boys, I did indeed cut their hair very short and they didn't mind. The lice went and never came back and I had escaped unharmed...
With regards to shampoo and such, I'm now into my second year without any products (only cracked once when I went to the haidressers and regretted bitterly not having refused the shampoo when my hair was limp and flying around my head afterwards ) and am ever so glad I did. My hair grows very fast, you can actually see a difference between the "before" and " after" growth in the thickness. It has waves now and is very healthy. Nobody ever commented on smell and I can't notice anything (unless we talk lack of perfume, of course). It's great to travel lightweight, too! In the beginning I rinsed it every week, now I have reduced that to every other week unless it gets dirty for some reason. It isn't greasy at all, there's still a bit of dandruff here and there but much less then when I used shampoos, and no more itchy scalp . So, I'm convinced that it was and is worth the try!!

Blessings

[Asch]

I'm tempted to try this but I work out at least five days a week and generally break quite a sweat. In the past if I've gone two days without a shower (when not working out just regular day to day activities) my scalp gets extremely irritated/itchy/burning feeling. I also have naturally greasy hair that is extremely lon. Has anyone gone entirely product free while maintaining a 'sweaty' lifestyle? As is I use a natural castille based soap and shampoo and wash my laundry with soap nuts. I have several 'recipes' for natural hair treatments and liquid shampoos that I plan to switch to once I've used up my current batch of store bought castile/organic shampoo (mostly so I can re-use the container). But am tempted to try to go 'cold turkey'. Any advice?

[katie bridgewater]

Has anyone gone entirely product free while maintaining a 'sweaty' lifestyle?

Pretty much every human that has ever lived led a 'sweaty' lifestyle without using any kind of cleaning product on their hair. The average distance covered by a hunter gatherer per day is 9 miles, often at a running pace - and yet the San Bushmen don't carry plastic bottles of stinky shampoo with them! So you see, you will actually be more 'normal' once you get off these nasty factory-made products.

If you go cold turkey, you will have to go through a period of adjustment whatever your lifestyle involves. But remember, sweat is not the same as sebum. The sebum will balance itself quicker if you just go for it and follow the sensible brushing and minimal water-only rinsing on this thread (any other applications will slow down the return to 'normal' IMO). Rinsing your hair in just water will alleviate the saltiness of sweat from your head. Brushing will spread the oil away from your scalp and down your hair shafts to condition them at the ends.

There is no 'quick fix' and the only way to do it is to just do it! Once your scalp has returned to its natural state, I expect working out will feel much easier, since you won't have to spend time stripping your skin bare with stuff afterwards, just a quick water-shower-and-go.

Good luck

[Asch]

Has anyone gone entirely product free while maintaining a 'sweaty' lifestyle?

Pretty much every human that has ever lived led a 'sweaty' lifestyle without using any kind of cleaning product on their hair. The average distance covered by a hunter gatherer per day is 9 miles, often at a running pace - and yet the San Bushmen don't carry plastic bottles of stinky shampoo with them! So you see, you will actually be more 'normal' once you get off these nasty factory-made products.

Lol well clearly I realize that I was more questioning going from a product loving modern human with a sweaty lifestyle to a non-product loving modern human with a sweaty lifestyle but I see your point.

I may give it a shot once my current batch runs out, couldn't hurt

Thanks for the advice.

[katie bridgewater]

Cold turkey really is the best way Asch, no matter what your lifestyle! I managed it while teaching in a high school and living a really active sweaty life living on a boat. I don't work out - living a nomadic life on a boat was more like a work out everyday anyway, carrying heavy stuff for miles and handling a huge boat through locks single handed gets you very hot and sweaty. You just have to try it. just brush and water and see how you go - it might take 6 weeks, but IMO it's worth it!

[Asch]

I'll definitely see if I can make it work. I realized that the reason its taking me forever to get through the last of my current product is because I usually do a thorough rinse with minimal shampoo as it is lol.

[Corwen]

It isn't worth using up old shampoo or conditioner. One thing they don't tell you on the bottle is that although the individual ingredients are relatively safe when they go into the bottle they react together over time to form far more dangerous compounds. These include nitrosamines which are known to be highly carcinogenic and 1,4 dioxane a probable carcinogen.

If you live in the USA the news is even worse, once you have used the shampoo it reacts with chloramine used as a disinfectant in the water treatment plants to form more nitrosamines, which stay in the water and end up coming out of your tap as the water is re-circulated.

[Teileag]

Hi Asch, I go running 3 or 4 times a week and it doesn't seem to have much impact on my hair. I leave it open instead of making a pony tail as I used to do before and it doesn't smell sweaty at all... Just try it out and see what happens!

[Aurora]

Well I've had several attempts at this and have had trouble adjusting so have used shampoo again, but at a reduced level of once a week in the hope that gradual reduction in shampooing will make the transition a bit easier. Had a good bit of success while traveling last year as i didn't shampoo while away but my hair got very bad on return home so i shampooed it So i continued with once a week shampoos over summer as the intense heat and humidity made my hair really bad.

Have started the no shampoo trial again now and am having more success this time which i have put down to the following:

the weather not overly humid and quite a bit cooler meaning i'm not so sweaty or greasy
The new showerhead at my new place is not getting my hair damp every time i shower like the old one i was using did and this has made a big difference in the level of greasyness between my once weekly rinses
I'm brushing but not too much as i found if i overbrushed my hair got greasy quickly, plus i'm washing my brushes as recomended too
and finally I'm changing my pillowcases extra frequently in my hair transition period and it seems to be helping too

So far i'm about two weeks in and nearly due for it's second rinse and my hair is not doing to badly, just very very mildly greasy today so i'm really pleased with how it's going

[Corwen]

Well done Aurora and good luck. It is surprising how getting your hair wet really stimulates that grease production.