Are the EU trying to Kill us All

[RedKite]

If you can make something 'unbelievable enough'... people won't believe it... until it's too late.

Our Health, our Lives, Healing and Beliefs (Faith), as we know it, will shortly cease to exist if Secret EU Rules are allowed to come into force by April 2011.

It seems that they are banning the use of all things Natural... and we have all been kept in the dark about it.

No Natural Healing, no Natural Foods, you won't even be able to Offer or Teach Natural Healing...

Please read the link below and sign the petition. Next.. tell everyone you know. Next.. tell everyone you don't know.

I want to be a Druid for the rest of my life - does this mean that I have just 6 months to live...?

Blessing to All /|\

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/join ... sinhealth/

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[starbird]

Hi RedKite,
Thanks for posting this article and I've duly signed the petition! I'm still in shock at the thought of such a move; it's disturbing, disgracefull and just plane stupid beyond belief! Any person with even an inkling of an affinity to the natural world will feel this and what is worse all this type of demented manouvering has been done 'cloak and dagger' by EU officials.
I'm definitely going to keep myself informed as to developments.

Starbird

[helenoftheways]

I've looked at your link, Redkite, and read all the inflammatory rhetoric, but what I don't see is the actual legislation that is supposed to be coming into force! Can you give us a link to that please? I'm not going to sign anything until I know exactly what I'm petitioning against!

[helenoftheways]

I found this article about it, dated September 2010, which is probably closer to the truth, without hysteria.

Industry professionals met in Bologna, Italy last week for a conference held at SANA, the international natural products trade fair, to discuss the future of their sector. From April 2011, all member states will have to comply with a European Union directive which specifies that all herbs produced, manufactured and sold in the EU must be classified as either foods or medicines.

But most of us surely have known this for some time, no? No amount of petitions are going to change this, I'm afraid. It has already been raised in Brussels & in the UK parliament.

The bottom line is that the Big Pharma companies want to be in control of herbal medicine. And they've got a lot of clout.

[starbird]

Greetings Helenoftheways,
Thanks for the update and clarification on this issue. It's seems like the unfortunate and all to familiar commercialisation of things natural for unhealthy and unatural ends (like the Gov selling off a large part of Britains forests); GREED!

Starbird.

[Dendrias]

Which regulations are we talking about, here? Is it the health-claims-regulation (No. 1924/2006) from 2006? That which regulates whether or not you can advertise the effects on health of your margarine or tea? Whether or not margarine is promoting health or not?

This petition is odd, You're right, helenoftheways. It arousing fear on every level, e.g.:

[...] as strict censorship also means we can no longer speak or teach each other about the merits and health enhancing benefits of natural foods, [...]
Meanwhile, UK Regulators [...] are currently criminalizing' legitimate manufacturers & practitioners with heavy fines imprisonment, [...] These Regulators have been given more powers than the police [...]

It seems to be a well-planned conspiracy, with men in black arresting every person speaking in public about melissa officinalis in teabags. Censorship! Why the hell haven't UK citizens been informed?
But now, four years after secret laws have been put in force, finally, someone informs us! Thank You ... well, who was it to "inspire" this petition?

The inspiration behind the petition is founder - Dounne Alexander (61) MBE, FRSA whose business (GRAMMA'S) and extraordinary herbal products have been effected by these draconian legislations.

A business-woman with a strong interest in selling certain products. Perhaps it's not about civil rights and men in black, perhaps it's about ... business and greed. I don't know, but it seems to be more than odd.

P.S. Sorry, I've forgotten to write what has been whirling around in my mind for some days:
I don't believe that there's a conspiracy made in EU. But what I can see in this thread is two things:
Manipulation can go very far. Either by the authors of the petition. I can't see any references to existing regulations, nor citations. I can see pictures of women and children etc. and read the inflammatory rhetoric. But that's no basis for a discussion, is it? Inciting fear is neither a fair way of leading a discussion nor a way to achieve something in politics.
The other thing is hysteria - neither of good way of conduct nor a way to regulate your acts. "Are the EU trying to Kill us All" might be a good eye-catcher in advertisement, a wise reaction to whatever regulation ... well, I'm not sure.

This site mentions D. Alexander. From there you can get to this pdf. The MHRA is mentioned as having been responsible for Alexander's misery. Perhaps it's mere interest in selling products to incite the petition. But, to be honest, I haven't read all of the pdf-document.
It might be no wonder that certain UK offices are said to have more power than the police ... but perhaps, it's just a personal thing.

[Papillon]

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The bottom line is that the Big Pharma companies want to be in control of herbal medicine. And they've got a lot of clout.

I agree Helen,

What worries me most is that some of these herbal medicines are in direct competition with the "proper" medicines already produced by them, the big difference being that the herbal ones, when taken correctly can often effect a cure, whilst the pharmaceutical remedys in many cases are designed to give symptomatic relief rather than an actual cure, meaning that you have to keep taking them.

I wonder which one they would prefer to promote?

[Papillon]

I read about this legislation first from this link:

http://real-agenda.com/2010/09/22/medic ... ean-union/

Again it is biased, it is very difficult to find any report on anything these days which isn't biased in some way. The big concern for me is whether all the testing and certifications obtained for the herbals will make them unaffordable, and eventually unmarketable, because let's make no mistake, whether you are on the side of the big pharmaceutical companies, or the herbal producers, they are all in it to make a profit, and if a business becomes unprofitable it will not survive.

I shudder to think where that will leave me, particularly in the UK where the standard answer to every medical question seems to be "take two paracetamol." A drug which is known to have adverse affects on the liver, and which is just not sold in some countries for that reason.

It is so difficult to find a balanced view, and the "this site" mentioned by Dendrias is equally unbalanced, but in the opposite way. He definitely doesn't ike homoeopathy, does he!

I guess you pays your money and takes your choice - oh whoops, no sorry, the choice is being taken away

[RedKite]

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Everyone will have their own opinion of this, and other thing like this... So just a couple of things to consider...

Why is vitamin B17 banned in the UK? You won't find it in Any preparation, in any supplement, in any health shop... Because it can prevent and help cure Cancer - by softening the sticky coating on the cancer, so that your body's defence system can attack it. The only thing that we still have access to (at the moment) are Apricot Kernels... one for each 10 pounds of your body weight per day - and at least 2 litres of filtered tap water (not bottled water). Cancer (even up,to stage 4) can, and has, been 100% cured by natural means - with no side effects.

Why the big drive now for 'Sugar Free' products... because it sells Aspartame - an artificial sweetener and a Deadly Poison (don't take my word for it - look it up).

Why does all our Soap, Shampoo and Toothpaste contain 'Sodium Lauryl Sulphate' (with variations of spelling, SLS etc..) - look it up... it's not JUST a soap...! - it's a Garage Floor de-greaser that can dissolve concrete.

Why do people get addicted to foods containing Mono-sodium Glutamate (MSG, and at least 80 other names)... KFC are one of the worst culprits... look it up...!

Why is the 'Natural' deodorant 'Pit Rock' (solid or spray) allowed to be sold everywhere... because it's Ammonia Alum (the ammonium double sulphate of aluminium), another deadly, residual poison... look it up. Many of these things are 'Perfectly safe in small quantities...??!!' (yeah... tell me about it) - many are Residual, and build up in the body.

Why is the herb 'Stivia' only sold for Animal use or External Use Only (in the UK)... Because a sugar company (I believe it was Silver Spoon) got it banned, because it may have caused them to sell less sugar - It tastes sweet, it's natural and it's harmless (or as harmless as anything can be if not abused or over dosed).

I have been to lectures about Codex.. and Yes, I know people love 'conspiracy theory', but there is no way that the drug companies are going to sit back and allow natural, cheap cures to put them out of business. You can cure all sorts of things naturally.. cancer, diabetes, alzheimer's.... etc.

It doesn't matter who we vote into power... the SAME people run the country (and the World). I takes a Massive public vote/petition to put up any sort of a fight. What's wrong with getting the population of the UK and/or the EU to say 'We want natural medicine/treatments...!" or, at least, 'We want the choice".

To quote a well used line...
Take the Blue Pill and go back to the Controlled, Comfortable world... Or take the Red Pill and wake up to what is Really happening. I don't know the accuracy of this petition but I've seen the build up of filth and lies, over the past 63 years, and I will not turn my back on any attempt (or potential attempt) to paint over it. The latest thing is... "the Green Party are coming round to the idea that GM foods and Nuclear Power are OK...?! Time to wake up...
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[Dendrias]

I totally agree with You two on several subjects, although I usually don't like to be addressed in the third person. It used with full arrogance, disrespect and unpoliteness, down here, Papillon.

Whether or not I like homeopathic medicine seems at least irrelevant in this thread. But perhaps this seemingly aggressive argumentum ad personam against me is meant to vilify my pov, and perhaps will serve for that.
Your list of poisons, RedKite, is very shocking indeed. But neither in this thread nor on the petition's webpage, nor in the EU regulation these poisons are addressed, as far as I have read. So why are they in Your answer? Is it just for argument's sake? Just to show how dangerous, treacherous and poisonous politics are? I don't think that this is a good way of discussing a topic. But that's Your choice.

What I don't like about the petition, and, to be honest, about the OP, is that by inciting fear, and the more by overly inciting a huge amount of fear people are instrumentalised. Instrumentalised for certain politics, for certain businesses, for certain povs, for really anything. It's no fair way of coming to your end to instrumentalise people. That's, in fact, disgusting.

My post has been about this: instrumentalising, looking for what the regulation is about, looking for the demagogic part in the petition and, to be honest, in the OP. Not about any medication or any poison in soap or anything.I simply wouldn't want to be instrumentalised. I simply can't turn my back on seeing instrumentalisation. Sorry, I seemed to be questioning Your comfortable pov.

[helenoftheways]

Whether or not I like homeopathic medicine seems at least irrelevant in this thread. But perhaps this seemingly aggressive argumentum ad personam against me is meant to vilify my pov, and perhaps will serve for that..

Dendrias - with very great respect, I think you have misunderstood what Papillon meant in his comment

It is so difficult to find a balanced view, and the "this site" mentioned by Dendrias is equally unbalanced, but in the opposite way. He definitely doesn't ike homoeopathy, does he!

Although it could sound as if he is referring to you, I understood it to refer to the author of the 'quackometer' link - of course this person is going to run down homeopathy!

I may be wrong, of course....

[Dendrias]

That's possible, helenoftheways. If so, I will certainly apologise in this point. If not, I won't.

BTW: Are we talking about the health-claims-regulation, or are we talking past each other?

[Pollen]

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Why is vitamin B17 banned in the UK? You won't find it in Any preparation, in any supplement, in any health shop... Because it can prevent and help cure Cancer - by softening the sticky coating on the cancer, so that your body's defence system can attack it.
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B17's proper name is Amygdalin - and indeed it comes from almonds. Here's some info from wikipedia (but you can check else where too)

The US Food and Drug Administration continues to seek jail sentences for vendors selling laetrile for cancer treatment, calling it a "highly toxic product that has not shown any effect on treating cancer."[36]

A 2006 systematic review by the Cochrane Collaboration concluded: "The claim that [l]aetrile has beneficial effects for cancer patients is not supported by data from controlled clinical trials. This systematic review has clearly identified the need for randomised or controlled clinical trials assessing the effectiveness of [l]aetrile or amygdalin for cancer treatment."[37] Given the lack of evidence, laetrile has not been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.[14]

The U.S. National Institutes of Health evaluated the evidence separately and concluded that clinical trials of amgydalin showed little or no effect against cancer.[22] For example, a 1982 trial of 178 patients found that tumor size had increased in all patients. The authors reported that "the hazards of amygdalin therapy were evidenced in several patients by symptoms of cyanide toxicity or by blood cyanide levels approaching the lethal range."[5]

The study concluded "Patients exposed to this agent should be instructed about the danger of cyanide poisoning, and their blood cyanide levels should be carefully monitored. Amygdalin (Laetrile) is a toxic drug that is not effective as a cancer treatment".

Marcus

[RedKite]

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There are, very often, huge differences between the 'Natural' medicine and the Synthesised version. This also applies to 'metals' as well. Just one example is Copper... it is poisonous in it's metal form but very good for you in 'Food Form' - even copper bracelets are dangerous.

What ever anyone's views are about this petition, I don't want to told that I can't use Mother Nature to cure my ills. I've always been a Pessimist when it comes to Herbs and/or Homoeopathy, so I can always eliminate the Placebo effect. If I take a homoeopathic tablet and it works, then I know it genuinely works and I'm not imagining it. Even so, it is well worth keeping thing like this for the Placebo effect - but I don't want to be forced to take any chemical filled rubbish.

What we are really being faced with here is Control - by those that want to make money. Do you want 'The Powers That Be' to prevent you from receiving Reiki or Metamorphic Technique or any other treatment/healing. They can't make money out of Natural medicine because they can't put a patent on it. There will always be Charlatans out there, and people will be taken for a ride by them, but you can't ban every healer or herbalist or homoeopath. Cancer alone is worth Billions every year - the last thing the drug companies want it a Healthy population.
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[Dendrias]

To put it straight, RedKite: Someone is manipulating You. And it's not the EU in this case, it's the petition's author.
The health-claims-regulation is neither about Reiki nor is about Metamorphic Technique, neither is it about homoeopathy nor is it about mother nature. It's about health-claims of food. As far as I understand, but noone told me otherwise. That's it. And whoever tells You that it was about Reiki, about teaching herbal medicine or talking about tea against diarrhoea - is manipulating You. If someone accuses the EU of "secretly" approving laws - he is manipulating.

And, I have to repeat myself, if You are accusing the EU of wanting to kill anyone or of preventing You from being a druid by this regulation - You are manipulating. And that's just not what I would expect of a druid. Where is truth in manipulation, in instrumentalising people?

I don't even care about different view on what can and what cannot cure or what does and what does not cause which disease to a certain extent - I just don't want to turn my back on manipulation. But I'll leave You alone with that.

[Papillon]

[quote="Dendrias"]I totally agree with You two on several subjects, although I usually don't like to be addressed in the third person. It used with full arrogance, disrespect and unpoliteness, down here, Papillon.

Whether or not I like homeopathic medicine seems at least irrelevant in this thread. But perhaps this seemingly aggressive argumentum ad personam against me is meant to vilify my pov, and perhaps will serve for that.
quote]

Dendrias, Please accept my sincere apologies for not making my post absolutely clear.

The "He" in my post was very definitely aimed at the author of the quackometer articles, and was merely a comment on a bias that was almost comical in it's vehemence. Certainly not an accusation I would level at yourself based on your post which I thought was very well balanced.

[Dendrias]

Oh, Papillon, I'm sorry for my mistake, now. Please take my apologies in return.

[Papillon]

Apology accepted, but I will try to make sure I'm clearer in future

[Papillon]

My understanding of this issue, which may be flawed, is that it is not just about companies claiming medicinal benefits from their foods, something which DOES need looking at in my opinion.

It is more that medicinal herbs currently sold will have to undergo the same tests as pharmaceutical remedies. At first glance that would seem to be a good thing, however on closer inspection of past history a couple of things stick out.

A number of herbs have been fully tested by the pharmaceutical chemists, and in some cases were found to contain an element which did have a beneficial effect. I stress "contain an element "for good reasons. In order to make their tests the chemists took the plant extract down to its component parts, and tested them individually. Often where the "beneficial element" was found it proved impossible to administer without some other substance which, in their wisdom they decided to create synthetically, not bothering to test the sum of the components of the herb in question which would have answered the question. (Gingko Biloba was one such)

Quite apart from the inappropriate testing, is the cost of such an approach. The only companies geared up to test in this way are the large pharmaceutical companies, which would effectively put them in control of what could be a major competitor.

Whilst I agree that there is a lot of sensationalism in some of the claims, much of it I feel down to personal greed, I am even less comfortable with the thought of the big pharmaceutical companies being in control.

That really does worry me.

[RedKite]

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We also have to remember that many homoeopathic medicines (and possibly other sorts as well) are based on Poisons. Tiny quantities that mimic the symptoms of the person being treated - this then appears to triggers the body into the correct healing sequence. I know that a 30 dilution is one drop in more water than is on the planet but I'm sure they'd hang onto the name of what it started out as if they wanted to ban it. If I have any of this data wrong, please blame the Homoeopath who told me.

I still remember when, back in the 1950's, my Mother's doctor put her on Arsenic - I can't remember what for but it totally rotted all her teeth. Those were the days... or was it daze....?
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