Does Druidry have a 'mystical' equivalent?

[=West=]

I was listening to a few podcasts over the weekend and got to thinking:

In traditions such as Islam and Christianity, there are the modern or traditional paths, and there are also those that are considered to be 'mystical'. For example - in Islam, Sufism and writers such as Rumi and Hafiz are considered the mystical branch. In Christianity, we look to people such as Meister Eckhart, Hildegard, Thomas Merton, as keepers of the mystical traditions.

Does Druidry have an equivalent? I couldn't honestly come up with an answer. Since so much of modern Druidry is synthesized from fragments of history and literature, perhaps we simply don't have enough information to have a mystical vs. a traditional Druidic path. On the other hand, perhaps Druidry in itself is inherently mystical, in that it already seeks to find the universal aspects of divine consciousness in a way that isn't exclusive of other paths...

What do you think? And in terms of writing, poetry, etc. - what books or authors do you think most capture the 'mystical' aspects of Druidry?

[treegod]

Hmmm, I think it is more or less mystcially based. I don't know about ancient Druidry, which probably leaned towards more formal religion; ceremony, law, lore etc. Though it most certainly had mystical elements, though I'm not sure how much but modern Druidry certainly leans towards more mystical leanings.

Maybe we can see it divided between the "shamanic" and the "ceremonial"?

Or comparing Orders, ADF works towards creating a belief system and are quite scholastic whereas OBOD is certainly more experiential. RDNA, though informal I think concentrates on more liturgical ceremonial things, though I guess it must have a mystical bent. And AODA, so I've read, is similar to OBOD, though I'm not sure how. BDO I think is shamanic. Each Druid Order emphasises something slightly different. But overall I think they all lean towards the mystical in some way. I might be wrong defining them along these lines, I've only recently started to really see what the differences are.

When modern Druidry began in the Revival the groups weren't so spiritual, if at all. The fraternal Druids were more for mutual support, like the Ancient Order of Druids, and similar to Freemasonry. Then there's the cultural Druids, still active in their Gorsedd and Eisteddfod, but more interested in celebrating their own Celtic identity than spiritual experience.

Then (if I'm right, I've only recently come across this) along came George Watson McGregor Reid, with his Universalist/ Theosophical/Occultist leanings started the Ancient Druid Order, that Ross Nichols was a part of, to make Druidry something more spiritual rather than just a fraternal or cultural institution.

What makes modern Druidry different, I think, is that the mystical/spiritual/experiental branches of Druidry actually constitute the majority of this movement, as opposed to other mystical branches in other religions that normally form the minority.

[=West=]

Thanks for that feedback - very useful indeed. The more I think on it, I think I'd have to agree that Nuinn himself probably falls most squarely into the 'mystical' aspect of OBOD Druidry. As you noted, prior to his work, much was liturgical, social, political - and not so much with the spiritual. Might be time for me to pick up more of Nuinn's original writings I suppose!

[DJ Droood]

Honestly, for many, I think druidry *is* the mystical side of Christianity. As has been repeated many times, druidry, especially OBOD druidry, is more of a philosophy than a religion, and many many people here are Christians who use druidry to suppliment their faith.

Wiki defines mysticism thusly:

Mysticism (from the Greek μυστικός, mystikos, an initiate of a mystery religion)[1] is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, instinct or insight. Mysticism usually centers on a practice or practices intended to nurture those experiences or awareness. Mysticism may be dualistic, maintaining a distinction between the self and the divine, or may be nondualistic. Differing religious traditions have described this fundamental mystical experience in different ways:

So I would think druidry *is* a mystical tradition, and other than maybe the "Celtic Reconstructionist" branch which seems more interested in books and the experiences of people in the past, most druids today are in " pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality"...which is even true for someone like me who doesn't use fairies and gods, etc. in their pursuit.

[celticmodes]

I approach Druidry through mysticism/gnosticism. Since I'm trying to find the religion that matches my perceptions of reality, I use my other senses a lot and try to think as little as possible about it all. I want to learn the doctrine and entertain other's ideas but my own experience is the final word in my religion.

I assume other druids are like this.

[Explorer]

Honestly, for many, I think druidry *is* the mystical side of Christianity. As has been repeated many times, druidry, especially OBOD druidry, is more of a philosophy than a religion, and many many people here are Christians who use druidry to suppliment their faith.

Wiki defines mysticism thusly:

Mysticism (from the Greek μυστικός, mystikos, an initiate of a mystery religion)[1] is the pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, instinct or insight. Mysticism usually centers on a practice or practices intended to nurture those experiences or awareness. Mysticism may be dualistic, maintaining a distinction between the self and the divine, or may be nondualistic. Differing religious traditions have described this fundamental mystical experience in different ways:

So I would think druidry *is* a mystical tradition, and other than maybe the "Celtic Reconstructionist" branch which seems more interested in books and the experiences of people in the past, most druids today are in " pursuit of communion with, identity with, or conscious awareness of an ultimate reality"...which is even true for someone like me who doesn't use fairies and gods, etc. in their pursuit.

Exactly right.
Technically speaking obod druidic mysticism leans on a dilluated/modernized variant of hermeticism , through Golden dawn, freemasonry and modern witchcraft. Hermetic mysticism itself is based on christianity and judeaism. This is coupled with a shamanistic world view and cosmology. We kicked out the angels and demons, and inserted animals and trees. This is brilliant, because it gets rid of the religious overtones and makes space for the more romantic notion of 'ancient druids'. It is no secret that we use fantasy, imagination and romantic idea's about celts as power sources (inspiration) also. Our magic is full of it.

And it works.
OBOD doesn't provide the mystical exeriences, but shows the way. You make your own choices of how deep you want to go in.
As an initiant you can choose the intensitiy of your initiation. You can do an indoor self-initiation, or with a bit more courage and imagination you can go out in nature and hand over the control of your destiny to other people, the forces of nature, fate. This also gives a clue to the intensity of the mystical path that will follow (not always, but in general).
Once on that path you follow a course of spiritual exercises and skills (mostly meditation and ritual) to gain a greater awareness of your connection to the 'bigger thing'. Whether that is nature, goddess/god, universe, whatever, is irrelevant and personal. What counts is the principle, or rather the personal experiences of it.
And this can be no less than life changing.

[treegod]

It certainly does have Christian roots. I think modern Druidry is also allied with the counter-culture movement/s. Most people here find the mainstream, or a part of it, lacking in something.

The roots of OBOD go back to George Watson McGregor Reid, a Universalist minister who founded the Ancient Druid Order (ADO) in 1909 (though there is a story of it going back to 1717 with John Toland). Using the Druid Revival or the previous two centuries as a "vehicle" he introduced more spiritual elements, coming from, at least, Theosphical and Golden Dawn ideas. For the liturgy and ritual he may have relied on Iolo Morganwg's material, and possibly may have had influences from more fraternal Druid Order, influenced by Freemasonry, such as the Ancient Order of Druids (AOD).

Ross Nichols, an ordained deacon in the Celtic Orthodox Church, broke away from ADO (not AOD!) to form OBOD. Into OBOD he introduced more Celtic ideas, a bit more "Pagan", though he himself was still strongly influenced by Christian beliefs. Introducing Celtic mythology meant that some of Iolo's stuff was shed, though some elements remain, such as the Universal Druids Prayer.

With Philip Carr Gomm OBOD absorbed more modern psychological ideas.

Probably the membership of Ross Nichol's OBOD were more Christian, whereas now, the membership of OBOD seems to attract mainly Neopagans, but I think there's a strong contingent of Christians and others.

=West=, if you want to see more there's this link here; THE HISTORY OF MODERN DRUIDISM I've described mostly British Druidry, but this also includes American druid history, particularily RDNA and ADF.

Perhaps you can divine the mystical "strands" in all of that

[treegod]

Alsdo I found this which pertains to the ADO and how it worked The Ancient Druid Order

Very interesting to compare with how OBOD works now. Makes me wonder what Nuinn changed, and what Philip might have changed too.

[Donata]

If the shamanic Celtic viewpoint resonates for you, it's very mystical and IMO totally compatible with Druidry. Tom Cowan, John Matthews, and Frank Mac Eowean have excellent books on shamanism from a Celtic/Druid perspective.

As you work through the OBOD Course I'm sure you'll find many oportunities for mysticism and development of your own intuition.

BB
Donata