Broken values

[Andrea ferch Taliesin]

I wonder if anyone else out there has encountered a similsr set of circumstances, and what did they do? Earlier this year a member of our group began to act oddly. I suppose you could say that they were "inflated". They began to insist that only they knew the right way to do things, and anyone who disagreed with them received a torrent of abuse. It came to the point when we had to tell them to go and leave the group. A hard decision, but the only one we could take. Since then they have continued to harass and personally insult members of the group. How do we deal with this?

[FoxPhantom]

Well I guess that would be the logical answer, and one way to stop the abuse. Even though I can guess that one way would be to make him go home, and let him know calling names and saying there is only one right way is a grand way ticket to go back home.

Even though I can see why the person had to leave, so it might be for the best. I can't think of what other option there is, but other members might have a better answer then what I could bring out.

[Frog]

I wonder if anyone else out there has encountered a similsr set of circumstances, and what did they do? Earlier this year a member of our group began to act oddly. I suppose you could say that they were "inflated". They began to insist that only they knew the right way to do things, and anyone who disagreed with them received a torrent of abuse. It came to the point when we had to tell them to go and leave the group. A hard decision, but the only one we could take. Since then they have continued to harass and personally insult members of the group. How do we deal with this?

Mamakaos
Your first course of action seemed to fit best with the group purpose - if they had been left to remain in the group then it is highly likely that the other members would have left.
It would seem from your post that this decision was for the best, given their continued actions.

What I can't determine from your email is whether this person has decided to target individual members, or the group as a whole. Either way, this person has now taken this outside the confines of the group - so could be heading towards general anti-social behaviour. I would suggest you may wish to talk to someone with more legal qualifications about what can be done here, but I would suggest that a polite letter to the person asking them to stop or that legal action may be considered is a start - if the ego is very inflated then they may not realise how their actions are being considered.

Trying to think it through from all sides, I wonder if something has happened in this person's personal life that caused the change? Career uncertainty, income concerns, family problems, or an inability to handle an addiction can all lead to a change of personality - it might be that they need some professional support.


Whatever the reason, it's never positive when people can't get along. I hope you are able to resolve it.
Blessings
Frog

[wolf560]

..... Since then they have continued to harass and personally insult members of the group. How do we deal with this?

Hello All,

Having survived (barely) exactly these circumstances I offer moral support and (hopefully) a little advice.

First, I am assuming that the aggression you and your group is feeling from this person on the outside is directed over some medium of exchange (internet board, commonly visited coffee-house, or similar community gathering).

Second, I am assuming that whatever they are doing and however they are doing it, the group (or affected individuals) are having some difficulty standing up to the harassment.

Third, I am assuming that you have little legal recourse (either through the law or through any recognized system of community Elders).

My biggest advice is to gather the group together and try to get a sense of their reaction to this person and their harassment. With a group backing, you can do a lot to stop this individual from harming the group. The danger here is that some of the group may side with this individual. If this is the case, then you have a problem.

My suggestion is to hold a gathering, with the sole intent being the open discussion of this individual and their affect upon the group as a whole. Do not say "Me" or "They" but always use "Us" and "Our Group".

If a true group agrees completely then you are in the clear and it is all over but the crying on the individuals part. The group can actively ignore him and begin to change meetings places and times so the individual is truly cut off and unaware of the groups further progression.

I tried to hold my group together in a very similar cirumstance and succeeded for over 18 months. In the end however, I did not realize that this individual had begun emailing all of the group individually and making them promise not to tell me about it. After over a year of this he turned 3 people out of our group of 15 against the group. Those three caused the destruction of our group from within, catching us at a time when we were voting in new leadership. They sabotaged our group by putting this individuals name on the ballot. The group burst into a war of words and when the flames died down there were only four of us left. Those four remain and the group remains, but it will never be the same again.

If I had it all to do over again, I would have held a group meeting and left it up to them. Any people that agreed with the individual would have also been asked to leave.
I made the mistake of thinking that the individual would eventually grow up and act his age. I was wrong and this petty individual has continued to cause noting but Chaos wherever he strides.

In the end the Balance has interceded and this individual has had nearly everything they value crumble to dust. Most of their group interaction results in the group they belong to (or they lead) falling into a massive flame war. They don't seem to understand that this is a path of spirituality and that nobody really had to "be in charge" of anything.

They are unfortunately caught up in a "Whose Staff is Bigger?" paradigm....

/|\ Mark

[Corwen]

There are two sides to every story. People can act oddly for all sorts of reasons, and if a change in behaviour comes on suddenly it will probably not last forever. Asking someone to leave a group permanently in response to a crisis which may be temporary may not be a sensitive response, asking them to sit things out for a while until they are in a better place might have been a kinder solution, the fact that they are still cared for by the group expressed clearly and a person appointed to act as a mediator and to check in on the person from time to time. If this kind of path is taken then good feeling can be maintained on both sides, and if the person temporarily taking time out can hold it together then they can have a second chance to ameliorate their behaviour and learn something from the experience, or at least not lose an important part of their life (and we all know how much we can invest emotionally in magical groups) because of a transient mental health issue. Of course this wouldn't be a sensible course of action if the person has been violent or acted in a sexually inappropriate way, but it doesn't sound like this was the case from your question.

Sometimes people can't let things go if they had a lot emotionally invested in the situation or if they feel that they have been wronged, this is a difficult thing for all concerned. It may be that you should all have a meeting where the excluded person can put across their point of view and listen to the points of view of others in a non judgemental and neutral situation, perhaps refereed by someone neutral and respected by both sides. It may be the only way to get a lasting resolution.

[wolf560]

They began to insist that only they knew the right way to do things, and anyone who disagreed with them received a torrent of abuse.

I would say that they had become at least verbally abusive while still in the group.
They have since continued (at least, perhaps escalated) that abuse since leaving.

There is the "Hard Right" over the "Easy Wrong".
I would say that the correct choice was taken, now the individual needs to move on.

What you see in an individual shows in large part who that person really is.
This is especially true when you view that person as a complete outsider.
Many mask themselves amongst friends so it's hard to see what they are truly capable of.

Inviting this person back into your midst (IMHO) would be a mistake.
Peace under the Oaks; I wish you and your group only the best on the Path.

[Donata]

Several years ago I had a similar situation with the first coven I started. I attempted to work with the person, but it didn't succeed. I think my attempts were seen as weakness and only encouraged the person. Compromise didn't work as it only encouraged more complaints and disguised demands.

Finally I did hold a meeting of the coven members, including the disruptive member, to discuss the situation. I underestimated that person's manipulative abilities badly. The meeting turned into others comforting the difficult one, and looking at me as a bully or power hungry! This was not so, but it's impossible to defend such accusations - how do you prove you aren't such and such or didn't do something?

The end result was that I called another meeting with the intention of closing down the coven if we didn't reach a resolution. The difficult person and the others influenced by her chose not to come. I closed the coven. Some chose to remain and we formed a very successful coven that went for 15 yrs. It's inactive now due to the death of one member, and three members moving away. We stay in touch and though inactive consider that we still have a coven.

I discussed my situation with my own Elders and other Elders and they were in agreement that there really was no solution with the person causing such difficulty. BTW she and the few who left with her spread gossip in our community, but I ignored it and didn't keep it going by responding - it eventually died down. Defending my actions would only have put me on the defensive and keep the gossip alive.

I think there comes a point where you may need to accept that your difficult person isn't interested in solving the problem, but may just want to destroy you for whatever reason. You may not find that holding a general meeting works in your favor, however democratic it seems. If someone is determined to work against you the only way to deal with it may be to ask that person to leave, and then ignore the gossip it will produce. You can't please everyone. So long as you know you're doing the right thing for the right reason you don't need to justify yourself and thus prolong the agony for everyone. Defending yourself won't change anyone's mind and really doesn't accomplish anything other than draining energy you can put to better use.

Good luck with this!

Donata

[Oneonine]

If such things are inevitable, as they are starting to sound like, what with all the examples, perhaps a meeting should be called to discuss the fact that your group might be at the stage to split into two new ones. Treat it as an exciting development, a cell splitting in two for the first time. Let people say which group they would favour staying a part of, without the downside of betrayals and suchlike feelings being engendered. Let it be known their decision doesn't have to be final if it turns out to be a bad fit, up until the point somebody replaces them, of course, at which point they might have to await an opening if they wanted back. No one is the bad guy, and anyone that prefers a "chosen one" system can have it, and good luck to them. You don't have to do anything, the current group knows the status quo, so the onus is left on the wheedler to outline what the new group will be like to gain members.

And good luck to them if the new group that attracted them had an egomaniac. He will only get worse with a taste of power, experiencing it first hand might be good for those that decided to leave, more so than just trying to protect them from it.

[wolf560]

Great Post Donata..!!!

We also went to the Elders in an effort to defuse the situation.
They told us.... "cut the branch off to save the tree".

We asked whether we should "Hive off". Our group didn't want that, they didn't want him to leave, they wanted it to go back to what it was before everything went to pot.

The best advice I ever had was from another Elder after I became one myself.....

Groups are just like a Pack of Wolves... You have the Alpha male-female, you have the Beta male-female, and you have the Omega. If the Beta ever rises up to the Alpha, one of them has to leave before the other kills them.

The "Beta" will tire eventually, they just have to "Howl" a bit.
It will be up to you as a group to decide what to do when they come crawling back.

Do not feel badly that you had to ask them to leave, it is their fault for not wanting to be part of the Group afterall.... not yours. You don't have to turn the other cheek, group leaders should concentrate on keeping the group together.

[Donata]

I completely agree with the thought that the group must take precedence over the individual and agree with what your Elders said, "cut the branch off to save the tree". I'll add that an untreated wound festers and infects other parts of the body, even to causing its death.

When we started our new coven after dissolving the original one we did it with a different name, fresh energy, and with more focus on our intentions. When we felt ready we invited prospective members (one at a time) to a social gathering without telling them that the purpose was to see how our energies meshed. Someone may be a fine person, the group may also be fine, but the two aren't necessarily compatible. This way if we felt we didn't mesh well - everyone in the coven had to agree - we simply didn't invite the prospective member back again. No hurt feelings. We operated on trust of one another's intuition so if someone felt strongly that a prospective member wasn't right for us we accepted it. This worked very well.

This isn't meant to be discriminatory or judgmental in a critical or prejudicial sense. It is exclusive as the group has an agreed on purpose and all members need to agree with it and contribute to it. I'm not a hiker though I respect hiking and enjoy short walks. It wouldn't work for anyone if I joined a hiker's group, went on hikes, and then couldn't keep up or had to drop out. No blame for anyone. It simply isn't the right group for me.

Good luck!
Donata