dark side of druidry

[Lily]

Zylah,

you managed to express what has eluded me so far,
some people are indeed fearful, may even be paranoid, of what they don't know, and what their minds cook up, It might be trained behavior. the smaller you draw your circle, the smaller it shrinks.
also people will believe good AND bad things without factual basis, who is to blame them, most of us have a lifetime of training... stop analyzing and the world becomes confusing...

So let's dig those tea trays out of the good china cupboard!!

When I say the druid prayer, which I don't use often, rather when I use the hhird step of opening a ritual, asking god&godess for protection, guidance and inspiration, the protection melds with the other two in an overall supporting, muddled thing... not very defined but nothing bad can come of it, that's for sure!

[Zylah]

Zylah,

you managed to express what has eluded me so far,
some people are indeed fearful, may even be paranoid, of what they don't know, and what their minds cook up, It might be trained behavior. the smaller you draw your circle, the smaller it shrinks.
also people will believe good AND bad things without factual basis, who is to blame them, most of us have a lifetime of training... stop analyzing and the world becomes confusing...

So let's dig those tea trays out of the good china cupboard!!

When I say the druid prayer, which I don't use often, rather when I use the hhird step of opening a ritual, asking god&godess for protection, guidance and inspiration, the protection melds with the other two in an overall supporting, muddled thing... not very defined but nothing bad can come of it, that's for sure!

Hi Lily - you're right, I hadn't made the connection with conditioned behavior in those terms, but that's another psychological approach to the problem. And I second the motion to get out the tea trays!

[Badger Bob]

Looking at this from a Druidic point of view and building on Zylah's and Athelia's excellent posts, is it really useful to think of light/dark as polar opposites, a diad? I grew up at a time when chaos was all the rage; punk, Moorcock and Games Workshop all reinforced the idea of Chaos as being interesting in my teenage brain (geeky? moi?). But is chaos/law, good/evil, and so on useful to a druid when we could look at the third factor in each of these. One that come to mind is the triad change - stagnation - evolution, there has to be the dark side of change and replacement in order to prevent stagnation and to allow things to improve. Between the light side and the dark side is the place of balance, the equinox which cannot exist without either one. Protection from the dark side prevents us from engaging in the things that flow from the dark; side, change, renewal, opportunity, and throws us off balance.

[serenarian]

My interpretation of the 'dark side' is simply this: without the 'darkness' we cannot perceive of the light. I do not aspire to the all too common idea that dark means bad/evil. It's all relative. A purring cat might appear to be everything cute and good to a human, yet to a little mouse it is the giant personification of evil itself.

Someone mentioned poisons in herbalism. Yes, they exist - but everything has an antidote. Some plants contain both healing and poisonous aspects. But then as do so many other things in our modern world. Alcohol - yes it relaxes us and assists with social interactions (in moderation), but alcohol killed my uncle through alcoholism. Sugar tastes wonderful and makes so many lovely things, yet it can produce diabetes if not taken in moderation, which is an awful disease.

I don't believe that the dark is evil or bad. It is what it is - merely the flip side to a situation, person or substance. In that aspect it functions as a leveller. We are here to find the balance. So yes, there may be aspects of Druidry, magic, Wicca, paganism etc that can be seen as dark, but I would strongly argue against them being evil.

Again, this is just my humble opinion.

[Hennie]

I am with you where 'dark' is used as opposed to 'light' 'clear' etc.
I am doubtful where 'dark' is opposed to good; like in 'he is from the dark side of town'.
I first thought that in this thread 'dark side of druidry' , 'dark' meant 'hidden', don't know about that, so..

[Lily]

I first thought that in this thread 'dark side of druidry' , 'dark' meant 'hidden', don't know about that, so..

Now THAT would be an entirely new topic - the unknown unknowns are the most mysterious... who knows what the "inner circle" - if any such thing exists, but surely there's a tight-knit "old boys and girls troupe" in England - are up to...

[reilz81]

i don't know that it needs to be a new topic, dark is open to interpretation hence how this topic has taken so many turns, which i think really gives you something to think about.

[Crimson Stormfire]

i am of the same mind as hennie when it comes to "dark" meaning "hidden" hence my statements and poems of the "paths of shade and shadow" and seeking the darker side of things...to me its the hidden side of what is, what was, and what will be....what could be, what should be , and what is being....their is always 2 sides a light{known side} and a dark{unknown} side and we as humans tend to fear the unknown and label it as "dark" to quantify it into a list, to discard and know only it exists and that it is to be feared. dangerous? surely and without proper guidance and training downright deadly, kindof like any weapon {if the analogy is allowed} without proper guidance and protection, training and knowledge, wisdom and foresight, downright deadly, even with the proper etiquette weapons are still very dangerous, much like our dark {unknown, or hidden} ......................train of thought de-railed due to smells of fresh coffee.........

[Muddy Fox]

I'm with the new age love and lighters on this and I do not think in this day and age the dark side of the human persona is very much hidden. Look around, the media is so very fond of celebrating our dark deeds, murder, rape, terroism, robbery, family breakdown, scandal, deception, greed, manipulation and so on and so on. Which is why people get parnoid about the state of the world and the apparent threat that we face on a daily basis . And I wonder if years ago all the same problems were there, and probably worse but you just did not know about it as you were cocooned or not as the case may be in your own village or surroundings where everybody knew everybody. And now every sick b*t*rd that has the power, the money or the desire can force their violent fantasies on the public at large through our unique way of communicating via telly and media. And the box in the corner and the mass produced written word via magzines and newspapers has become the ultimate tool in human control and behaviour. So switch off and don't comply. Which is precisely why I had no interest in The Royal wedding, mainly because of the sychophantic hype, and as people say" look what happened to Diana". I see Camilla Parker Bowles was not mentioned or commented on, a low profile, swept under the carpet perhps. And aren't the Royal family German in origins which is a bit of a surprise to see some positive comments on an English Druid message board who revel in their Celtic heritage. Story or mythological sentimental feelings to one side. Our own Royals perhaps lost and displaced. I don't know I am new to all this Druid stuff.

[deepwater]

To be Druid is to be one of many branches and twigs of several trees,,One can not be it all when it comes to being a Druid,,What little I remember of my grandfather saying of the shadowy world of potions and spells is better left alone,,He taught me to read the livers and lungs of animals for disease and how to pick and cure many herbs and mushrooms but only for eating,,There are plants and fungus and parts of animals when combined correctly can heal or kill depending on the person taking and the person mixing,,Knowing there is a dark side I would hope to be enough,,Trying ones hand at it is another,,So as we speak around it lets all keep our hands in our pockets least someone grow an extra ear

[Lily]

And aren't the Royal family German in origins which is a bit of a surprise to see some positive comments on an English Druid message board who revel in their Celtic heritage. Story or mythological sentimental feelings to one side. Our own Royals perhaps lost and displaced. I don't know I am new to all this Druid stuff.

Well, Most people in England pursuing druidry are english and therefore no more celtic than the Battenberg-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha royal dynasty.

Anglo-Saxon, French, Scottish, German, an array of Nations have been Kings in Britain Since(don't quote me on it) the year 700?. Its all the same...

[Arth Frown]

And aren't the Royal family German in origins which is a bit of a surprise to see some positive comments on an English Druid message board who revel in their Celtic heritage.

Why are you suprised?

[Muddy Fox]

That's a very good question Arth. Maybe I should have my wrists slapped for stereotyping Pagans/Druids, in my mind they always seem to be a bit non-conformist even anti-establishment maybe. Therefore not going with mainstream thought on topics such as Royal wedding hype. As I said I am new to all this stuff and very ignorant.
How many of you camped out then to get a glimpse of the carriage?

[Lily]

Honey, can you take that discussion into the Royal Wedding thread?

[DaRC]

Anglo-Saxon, French, Scottish, German, an array of Nations have been Kings in Britain Since(don't quote me on it) the year 700?. Its all the same...

Yep - the Queen can trace her family tree all the way back to the Anglo-Saxon kings and from there all the way back to Woden (allegedly m'lud). The reason why they went for the Hanoverian lineage is because they were protestant.
The inter-breeding of the aristocracy makes a mockery of nationality as they are all related.

Edit - Also because of the growth of population since the early medieval period apparently europeans are all related to Charlemagne. So in this respect we're all royals

[DJ Droood]

The inter-breeding of the aristocracy makes a mockery of nationality as they are all related.

Weren't they known as the Von Trapps. or the Hindenbergs or something until the outbreak of WWI? (a bad time for German PR)

I am split about having the Queen/King as our Head of State....on the one hand, undemocratic and anachronistic...on the other hand, the absurdity of pledging one's troth to the descendents of Wodan living across the ocean with no power of any sort seems like a sensible check and balance to local dictators.


hey wait...I'm sorry...this isn't the royal wedding thread....

[serenarian]

Well, Most people in England pursuing druidry are english and therefore no more celtic than the Battenberg-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha royal dynasty.

I know you said 'most' but I am not English, and as a Welsh woman I would identify myself as being of Celtic origin. There are more Celts than English in Britain, when you take into account the peoples of Scotland, Cornwall, Ireland and Wales...

[Lily]

Really? But never mind, I did write most.


England 51 Million
- of which Cornwall 0.5 Million
Scotland 5 million
Wales 3 Million
Northern Ireland 1.6 Million

Ireland 4.6 Million - not subject to the English Monarchy.

Now we could start dissecting the mix-and-match of influxes, migrations, conquests, etc over the past 1400 (or even 14000) years... and bring in genetics and race...

Maybe nitpicking can be added to the dark aspects of druidry. I confess!

[DJ Droood]

Now we could start dissecting the mix-and-match of influxes, migrations, conquests, etc over the past 1400 (or even 14000) years... and bring in genetics and race...

There isn't much to bring in...about 80% of Britain..all of Britan...is the same genetic make-up it was at the end of the Ice Age. All the waves of invasion and immigration since than have had huge cultural impacts, but not so much on the genetics of Britian....it would be "dark" to suggest that druidry is only open to "Celtic people", but I don't see that attitude trotted out much...at least in OBOD.

[Ruth]

To be honest, I thought eveything had at least just a little bit of the dark side.
I mean, isn't that normal for human beings?