Death penalty - the uncontroversial part

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Re: Death penalty - the uncontroversial part

Postby treegod » 25 Jul 2012, 11:29

Frog wrote:The largest problem is (as you note) how to identify the potential problem. The premeditated action would typically have a root cause as would the crime of passion; similarly, what would the difference be between someone who goes to rob a bank, but in the heat of the crime panics and shoots someone? They didn't intend to do so, but instead to have the gun to provide additional leverage. It is certainly a very complicated subject.


It begs the question why the bank robber chose circumstances that would allow for such a "crime of passion".
The "murder" might not be premeditated, but the circumstances are (especially having a loaded gun). If they'd made otehr choices our hypothetical bank robber would could have made other choices in their life which didn't require robbing a bank, and especially not murdering someone.

I think the roots of murder go further than planned/unplanned, there has to be a sort of mentality behind it (whether premeditated or impassioned) that leads up to events such as murder. And this mentality guides the choices we make.
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Re: Death penalty - the uncontroversial part

Postby DJ Droood » 25 Jul 2012, 11:36

treegod wrote:On the other hand if by Society we mean bureaucracies organising some system of help for individuals, I don't trust that one either, it won't work. And it undermines the value of the people it is trying to help, because bureaucracy is a machine and it treats people as "cogs".


Yea, an army of social workers isn't the answer to anything...I work in social work, and there are many good SWers and there are many people who are terrible at their jobs, hate their clients, are burned out from never-ending caseloads or are bitter because their writing career fizzled. They can't even help themselves...doubling the numbers won't do any good.
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Re: Death penalty - the uncontroversial part

Postby treegod » 25 Jul 2012, 13:32

DJ Droood wrote: They can't even help themselves...


I think you've hit on something there: learning to help ourselves. And maybe that's part of the problem. No potential-murderers get help because most people cannot help themselves.

We should learn to help ourselves, shouldn't we? Maybe that's the problem.
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