Mature Adults Subforum (18 and Older)

[Twyrch]

Hey Twyrch,

As for an 18+ subforum, I'm against such.  I see lots of room for abuse, flame wars, hurt feelings, etc.  I'm sure it would be due to someone saying something they found amusing that someone else becomes truly offended by.  I have a very dark sense of humor, so needless to say, most of the things I find comical I don't dare post.  :wink:  Though, with a solid enough argument, I may be swayed.

That's actually a pretty good idea (sorry Twyrch, gonna make more work for ya ).  If you want an 18+ subforum, go ahead and write up an arguement and stick it in the suggestions forum.  I'd be curious as to what people thought of it.

Ask and ye shall receive...

As most of you know, there is a subforum called Sages and Crones for those members who are 50 and over to discuss things which they are interested in (and we would presumably find boring). In 20 more years, I'll be able to join that forum too.

The moderators here are working on a new User Agreement which includes this rule:

1. Not to post or send by Private Message any material that is knowingly false and/or defamatory, intended to provoke an inappropriate reaction, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, spamming, racist, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually provocative, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or in violation of any applicable laws. Any such posts will be deleted or edited immediately. Failure to comply with these rules may result in your immediate suspension or permanent ban (and your service provider being informed). The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions.

Now, my suggestion for a Mature Adults Subforum is not to flout this rule, but offer some flexability to those types of more, shall we say, mature posts, pictures, jokes and conversations which might be inappropriate to the younger generation.

For example... I have a joke called the Texas Chili Taster which is hilarious, but filled with foul language. This is certainly in violation of the user agreement, but posting it in a mature adult area with a disclaimer (Contains vulgar discourse) or something to that effect would be able to be monitored, rather than sharing it via e-mail or PM where it could potentionally reach young members.

We used to have a joke thread for 13 and over, but there is no way to police what people are viewing that thread... creating a forum which allows people access based on age would help to better control things like that.

This can be used for more than jokes, too...  sometimes, conversations or images may not be appropriate for younger members, but could be easily skipped with proper disclaimers.

There would have to be rules to specifically govern this area, however, to keep flame wars and such from starting. Respect for each other would be imperitive and appropriate disclaimers added to posts to avoid inadvertant offense...

The rule bans "material that is knowingly false and/or defamatory, intended to provoke an inappropriate reaction, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, spamming, racist, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually provocative, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or in violation of any applicable laws" as well it should.... but these items all fall under showing respect to your other forum members.

Sometimes, posts with adult language, adult humour or adult content in general can still be non-attacking, non-threatening and can still show respect, especially with proper disclaimers in the thread title, so no one is offended or caught off-guard.

Anyway, I thought I would toss this idea out and see what everyone (especially the staff) thinks of this suggestion.

[Selene]

Well, Twyrch,
This is supposed to be a board about Druidry...it's not intended to be a place for every type of conversation or post that one could think of. And regardless, the word censor will remain activated; I could not turn it off for one forum even if I wanted to. In addition, a group like that could potentially take a lot of time for whoever is responsible for adding people to the usergroup...there would be no way to do it automatically. But the main thing is that I don't see a need for it here...sorry to be a party-pooper, but the Internet is full of boards like that already and I don't think "mature content" unrelated to Druidry would add any value to our board.

Others with opposing views are welcome to add their 2¢ worth, but unless someone can present a strong argument of why it would be a good idea, I would say no.

[Twyrch]

Well, Twyrch,
This is supposed to be a board about Druidry...it's not intended to be a place for every type of conversation or post that one could think of. And regardless, the word censor will remain activated; I could not turn it off for one forum even if I wanted to. In addition, a group like that could potentially take a lot of time for whoever is responsible for adding people to the usergroup...there would be no way to do it automatically. But the main thing is that I don't see a need for it here...sorry to be a party-pooper, but the Internet is full of boards like that already and I don't think "mature content" unrelated to Druidry would add any value to our board.

Others with opposing views are welcome to add their 2¢ worth, but unless someone can present a strong argument of why it would be a good idea, I would say no.

I understand that this forum is about "druidry" and not a place for everything under the sun, but even druids have to let their hair down from time to time. Granted, that's what the pub is for, but again it's open to everyone, hence the suggestion of this subforum. I was unaware that the Sages and Crones subforum was a place to discuss only things relating to Druidry to people over 50.

Also, I'm not suggesting we eliminate the profanity filter, simply not eliminate the threads (in that area) which, shall we say, makes full use of it's capabilities.

I can see how adding everyone over 18 on a board of more than 3000 could be quite an undertaking, but it could be by request only, which would make it easier to moderate and less likely for people to be offended, because they would have requested to be there in the first place.

If this were a Harry Potter board, I'd compare The Pub to "Diagon Alley" and have suggested this subforum be called "Knockturn Alley". It can still hold discussions that are interesting to druids, but more of a mature content which we may not feel comfortable discussing in front of minors.

[Donata]

Yes, for me Sages and Crones is a place for the more "mature" members to discuss their lives, their issues, etc, in light of their Druidism.

I agree with Selene, and felt this way as I read your post. Personally I see no need for it. We can let our hair down in the Pub. Why do we need a place to be our vulgar worst? To me this isn't Druidry in action, nor do I think it's really beneficial. There are other places, other boards, where this may be welcome.

BB
Donata

[Davin Raincloud]

I would support such a thing, if it was approved.  :shake:

[Kat Lady]

Well, we are open to suggestions for sure.

The Sages and Crones filled a need for those who were of a certain age group to discuss life, liberty and the pursuit of druidry in the later stages of life.  Exploring Spirituality is a place for our 13-21 year olds to discuss things pertaining to the beginning stages of life. If I read you correctly, the forum you are suggesting for

mature posts, pictures, jokes and conversations which might be inappropriate to the younger generation.

would not really be for discussion of issues relating to those 18 and older but would be a place for just pub style conversation. Please correct me if I am misinterpreting the intent.  

So my question is, why do you feel that forum would be "needed?" In other words, what need does it fill that is not already filled by the other fora, private messages and the chatrooms? By getting to the root of the what is needed, we will be able to make an educated decision!

[Crow]

Personally I see no need for it. We can let our hair down in the Pub. Why do we need a place to be our vulgar worst? To me this isn't Druidry in action, nor do I think it's really beneficial. There are other places, other boards, where this may be welcome.

I agree with Donata on this. I think we are already becoming a sort of Druidic Wal-Mart with a separate department for every interest under the sun, many of which have a very tentative link to druidry at all.

If it comes down to a question of fairness, I'd rather see Sages & Crones fall by the wayside than create some kind of R-rated adults-only forum.

[Donata]

As a more 'mature' member of Sages & Crones, I agree with dropping it if it avoids further proliferation. I don't find my Druidry interests special or different as I get older. It's not a very active forum. Interestingly this seems to be the case with the specialized, more narrow focus forums we set up.

With an 18+ forum there is the difficulty of knowing if the age given is accurate. No such problem with S&C!  :grin: There isn't exactly a mad rush to falsify 'mature' age!

Do vulgar/offensive/etc jokes add to an understanding of Druidry? Is this the face of OBOD we choose to present to the world? How valuable is a non-discussion forum whatever it's focus?

Donata

[Art]

After mulling this over, I’m not entirely opposed to the idea however I don’t think we have the tools or time to manage such a forum effectively.  Perhaps those tools may come in some later iteration of the board.  I simply do not see any practical way to open the door that wide at this time. At the same time, since the language constraints would still be in place, I’m not sure what niche such a forum would fill that isn’t already covered by some of the existing forums.  :shrug:

I do however appreaciate the suggestion and perhaps it is something we may want to revisit down the road a bit.  :shake:

[Merlyn]

Hummmm................  :thinking:
 The idea is one we have asked before.
So some members set up a complete "unmoderated" board, "In The Trees."

And for humor and satire we also have "The Foggy Duck" a spoonerism in it's own rite started long ago, also for the wider side of wayward Druids.

So, humbly I suggest we simply use the alternate boards & their forums.

Like this one for just this idea.
http://www.harpnet.net/duckforum/viewtopic.php?t=712

Blessings of the hidden forums  

[Twyrch]

Well, we are open to suggestions for sure.

The Sages and Crones filled a need for those who were of a certain age group to discuss life, liberty and the pursuit of druidry in the later stages of life.  Exploring Spirituality is a place for our 13-21 year olds to discuss things pertaining to the beginning stages of life. If I read you correctly, the forum you are suggesting for

mature posts, pictures, jokes and conversations which might be inappropriate to the younger generation.

would not really be for discussion of issues relating to those 18 and older but would be a place for just pub style conversation. Please correct me if I am misinterpreting the intent.  

So my question is, why do you feel that forum would be "needed?" In other words, what need does it fill that is not already filled by the other fora, private messages and the chatrooms? By getting to the root of the what is needed, we will be able to make an educated decision!

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone for their input, responses and suggestions for alternatives. Please do not close Sages and Crones on account of this suggestion... that is NOT my intent at all... I was merely pointing out something I saw as a double-standard. However, after Donata's clarification, I see there is no double-standard at all if that area is used to discuss Druidry relating to people only over 50.

Kat, I'd like to address of couple of your questions and concerns... You are correct that my suggestion is for a Pub Style room (probably under Druid Living) that would be geared toward those over 18. I'm not saying that it would be a total lack of control, wild orgy of vulgarity and obsenity and druids playing naked leap frog in the threads... but more a place for people to discuss things of a more mature nature and/or content, without fear of a minor viewing the area.

Someone brought up an valid point, though, that there is no way to make sure people aren't lying about their age, but that could be added to the user agreement and if discovered they lied about their age (to gain access to the forum) would be grounds for dismissal from the forum.

But now to the heart of the matter... Why do I feel it is needed? What void does it fill?

Right now, if I wanted to post a joke which has some bad language, regardless of the swear filter being in place, I don't feel comfortable posting something like that for fear of a younger member or even a guest viewing it. Also, if I had a picture or quote I wanted to share that wasn't vulgar but was more adult in nature, again, I wouldn't want a younger member or guest seeing it and being offended by it.

It could also be a place where places like Druid Parenting, Sexuality and Spirituality and Druidry in the Workplace could reside, because these topics, while not innappropriate for younger people, could potentially have topics or discussions where people might like a more "adult" point of view.

Like I said, if something could be potentially offensive, people could feel free to post a disclaimer in the title of their thread without fear of being banned. This was brought to light by the new user agreement and a question I asked about sharing potentially offensive jokes, pictures etc with people who asked for them, via PM. Selene had concerns that it could be shared with a minor and be bad for OBOD, so I suggested a "safe haven" to discuss things like that where we could control the ages of people joining.

Now, I remember the Foggy Duck from way back when... Merlyn's suggestion is a good one. It sounds like my suggestion has been shot down, so I'll just drop it, but please don't close down Sages and Crones. I may want to discuss my druidic path with people my own age in about 20 years or so.  :grin:

[Bracken]

Oh!

Thanks, Merlyn.

I never even got that Foggy Duck joke till you pointed it out.

I agree with Selene, Donata and Crow on this, but...

if there was such a subforum maybe the more offensive posts [offensive only from my point of view, of course] could go there instead of everywhere else and then they'd be easier to avoid.

Mamanohead.

[Donata]

If - as I thought - the OBOD Message Board is a place to discuss all aspects of Druidry, then I really don't see where  off color language/jokes/ etc fit in.

People don't discuss a joke.(unless they don't get it )
What is adult about using the lowest common denominator for language? More educated people know other words...
What is there that can't be expressed on a board (I Know - there are times IRL when a heartfelt Fxxx just is all that will do! and that's when my dog hides). I simply don't see how it applies to Druid Living or aids in that goal at all.

[Twyrch]

If - as I thought - the OBOD Message Board is a place to discuss all aspects of Druidry, then I really don't see where  off color language/jokes/ etc fit in.

People don't discuss a joke.(unless they don't get it )
What is adult about using the lowest common denominator for language? More educated people know other words...
What is there that can't be expressed on a board (I Know - there are times IRL when a heartfelt Fxxx just is all that will do! and that's when my dog hides). I simply don't see how it applies to Druid Living or aids in that goal at all.

Well... I'd offer an example of what I'm talking about but I'd probably get in a bit of trouble... swear filter or not....

I don't think you and I will agree on this and that's fine. I understand this board is about druidry, so if I have something to share, I'll just offer it via e-mail and be done with it. It's not worth making a federal case over.