Destroying the mountains for coal

[Ailim]

I came upon a BBC news item today explaining how approx. 400 mountain tops have been blasted away in the USA to get at the coal deposits beneath. In the video clip they show the rubble from the explosions being used to fill in the valleys in between?

I felt a little depressed by this news. To my knowledge, mountains are part of our ecological system and am therefore concerned that perhaps the destruction of them in this way may affect our weather systems, not to mention the connection those mountains probably had with the local history.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7768306.stm

Is this something we should be concerned about?

[LadyCelt]

You can see what the last 8 years of the Bush administration has allowed to go on. This is only scratching the surface (no pun intended) as to the systematic dismantling of much of the gains we as a country made in the 70s and 80s. We can only hope that the Obama administration will place the environment high on his list of the MANY things that need to be rebuilt.

[Saule]

Thats pretty terrible. And yes the mountains do affect weather systems. Being raised at the foot of the Rocky mountains I can guarantee that if they knocked down even a little of our "shelter belt" to the west our winters would be colder, and we would get less sun. We would get more water which would destroy the ecosystem and damage our farming communities. Of course they did cut down one mountain for concrete which is bad enough, but at least it was a short mountain so it didn't hurt the weather too bad.

I also find it very depressing that I get more American news that I'd deem important from the BBC then the states even though in Canada the BBC only has one channel and I get about 15 American ones on cable.

Just watched the thing...Thats so sad...

[serenarian]

I live in an area that completely revolved around coal and coal mining as little as 30 years ago. In my area, even after all this time, the effects of the industry are still obvious - large heaps of mine waste are piled on sides of mountains, which little can grow on. Some areas have benefitted from a tree planting programme, but in my opinion it is still obvious to see the extent to which my beautiful homeland has been raped by industry.

I worry for any community that is now being subjected to this process, especially if they are getting to the coal seams by explosive methods. Coal is flammable, after all....

It's a sad thing to see.

[illion]

We live near some old coppermines from the 18th century.

A mineral corporation had searched the old mines some years ago and found gold. So they decided to open the mines again, digging and making huge waste piles around the area. All the copper and other poisonous stuff from the mines have now polluted huge areas. The fish is dying in the surrounding ponds, creeks are infected and they are running down to our school, kindergarten and hiking trails. Nothing can grow on the area, the smell is awful.

They didn't find enough gold to make a business out of it of course, but instead they destroyed the Nature. Now they plan to reopen another mine nearby and the story repeats itself. I really hope they will be stopped.

Illion

[Fox]

I saw an item on this last night on the BBC as well. It was appalling.

The spokesman for the coal industry said something like, "We are sitting on all this coal, it is a gift and we should be taking advantage of it. To not use it would be criminal." And the story went on to point out that coal-fired power plants are still the main the source of electricity in the United States. So by that logic, he is right. Without the coal, the power plants - as they are - stop operating, and the power stops flowing.

But it is also like the farmer killing the goose that lays the golden egg. Instead of scaling back on the coal-fired plants and eking out the coal that we know is there so that it lasts a long time, we destroy the mountains, take all the coal out at once, shovel it into the fire to keep the lights on, and then .... then it's all gone.

So instead of planning for a low-energy consumption future, it seems we are going for a vast power-gorging spree - exploit every last non-renewable resource just as fast as we can so we can kid ourselves that everything will be all right in the end and life will go on just as it does now, and we never need change the way we live or our relationship with our dear little planet.

Mountains not only help control weather patterns, they are home to millions of creatures and millions of trees that are helping to control carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

And as druids, we should be concerned with the spirit of these places. This would be dismissed out of hand by the industrialists, but the genius locii of the mountains, valleys, streams, springs, groves, meadows, glades, the spirit of stone, water and wood, the wild creatures who all make up the divinity of our planet, are destroyed and we are all diminished by their destruction.

But let's keep the conversation to economics, at least the multi-national conglomerates and power companies might accept it if you couch it in monetary cost-benefits analysis.

What a world we are leaving our children ...

[Jingle]

There are some interesting points to both sides of the coin. Right now - today - we don't have the alternate power technology to power our population. The population grows, we need more power. We currently get a lot of power from coal, and oil and where possible, hydroelectric - but that's only where we're able to damn up large flowing water and control it's release (not always an environmentally sound option). Nuclear energy is used in some cases, but has proved disastrous if not handled correctly and has a lot of bad press.

Meanwhile, the companies developing the technology for clean and green can't get funding because of the credit crisis, and research and prototype projects in some cases have been put on hold or cancelled.

And as much as some people want to blame George Bush for all their problems, one single person cannot have done all that.

Yes, we over-consume, and most of the people I know are seriously trying to cut back. We can't drill for new oil resources in the wild land, (to me that would have less impact than tearing down the mountains for coal, but what do I know?).

There are regulations about restoring the mountaintops and replanting trees once they are finished. I'm not sure about the details, but it still hurts me to the core to see the trees coming down and the mountains flattened. We can complain all we want to about the environmental impacts, but it won't stop unless we do something about it.

But what else can we do - today? I still see people that don't care about recycling (did you know that we can cleanly burn used rubber tires as an energy source?)

Hybrid and regenerative vehicles are a start. But I think it will be a long time before we stop using coal for fuel as long as there is no alternative.

So a question for all of us:
Do we cut down mountains for coal, or do we drill for oil in Alaska? If those were your only choices, what would you choose?

And as a final thought...
Rather than shaking our heads for the shameful abuse of the land and then go about our merry way, can we get an environmental group to brainstorm alternatives? How can we help with the research for those alternatives? What can we do as individuals to become less dependent upon fossil fuel based electricity, fuel oil and coal? Can we develop a roofing technology that uses solar cells instead of roof tiles (this is what I want to do next time I put a new roof on my house so someone better start inventing soon). Can we make home sized wind power to install on the tops of buildings? How do we get ourselves off the grid?

[Saule]

Can we develop a roofing technology that uses solar cells instead of roof tiles (this is what I want to do next time I put a new roof on my house so someone better start inventing soon).

http://www.solarpowerathome.com/solar-p ... ngles.html
http://www.lowenergyhouse.com/solar-tiles.html

It exists!! Theres lots of types the shingles and tiles above I've seen a type that looks like the corrugated plastic stuff thats often used for roofing. There several types that also let you collect potable water off the roof (assuming the stuff from the sky is clean enough).

I have many opinions about how it should work out but I think its mostly along the lines of governments just doing it. Tax the crap out of coal power plants and use the money to buy renewable sources (solar, wind, small scale hydro). For people to become less dependant on fossil fuel power the laws have to change to make it easier, building codes and such specifically...I think making it illegal to sell incandescent bulbs is a step in the right direction though for pure power consumption.

The moral is theres lots of alternatives and options, most people just don't know about them or worse don't care...

[Jingle]

Thanks for the links! Hopefully I'll have the money by the time my roof needs to be replaced to do something like this and by that time they will have become more efficient and less costly!

I don't think over-taxing the coal companies will help. Not with the deregulation of power prices. It won't help anything because the energy companies will just pass that along to the consumer who will, despite their rising costs, cut out everything they can EXCEPT their power consumption.

[Saule]

It won't help anything because the energy companies will just pass that along to the consumer who will, despite their rising costs, cut out everything they can EXCEPT their power consumption.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head with that one... <sigh>


Anyway I didn't even look at the price of those shingles I just knew they exists... but looking back at them.. holy crap are they expensive... I better start saving my money...

[LadyCelt]

I passed this story along to my husband, whose first job as a mining engineer was coal mine reclamation. He says yes, it looks bad and it looks like we've completely slid back into the "dark ages" when abandoned coal mines wreaked havoc in terms of toxic runoff, underground fires, etc. However keep in mind that these days we now have the Environmental Protection Agency (it's been weakened by Bush, it's still there) and there are regulations in place for how the land is reclaimed and monitored for leaking pollutants afterward. Mining companies can't just blow it up and walk away. It's not perfect, and it's true the mountains won't be the same as before. But until we get better technology to meet our energy needs, it's the best we've got.

[Jarvisfamily4]

I didn't realize coal was so utilized still in the U.S.
When I was in Russia it was quite prominent, even heating the trains for 'comfort' to a sweltering sauna-like environment.

From my quick perusal, it seems that a lot of the coal goes to making electricity... 50% of US electricity from one article I saw. So, if we want to eliminate coal use,we must eliminate 50% of our electricity consucmption. And that is each and every one of us - and there are many energy hogs out there who just simply can't be bothered with it all. So some of us will have to cut back 80% or more to make up for them.
Yes, we can try for other technologies, but those are still a LONG way off from being practical (I was looking at adding some solar panals to our house, and a big three by six foot collector could only power three florescent bulbs for eight hours. An entire rooftop of collectors could not sustain our home). And cost-wise? People like their cheap electicity! They blame the governement and whine and cry if the costs go up. But as long as the coal is there pumping it out for cheap they are happy. Converting to alternative methods would be innanely expensive for everyone, and not supply enough power.
So, if we want to get rid of the coal sooner rather than later, we have to cut our use of it, collectively, on an individual basis.

Someone mentioned gold mining - - yet people are still buying gold jewellry, etc. When people stop buying it, it will loose it's value, the industry will shut down, the economy of the small mining town will go to he**, many MANY people will loose their jobs, and the mining will stop. Its going to have to hurt a LOT before it gets better.

The same goes for gravel pits - which there are a lot of here. Runoff patterns are changed causing erosion all around the pits. But, we still want to put pea-gravel under the tree, and expand the highway which requires gravel and river rock, make cement for our buildings and sidewalks and curbs.

In other words, it's the same-o same-o. We like our luxuries, dont' like how we get them, but are we willing to go without them? Are enough people willing to give up their luxuries? One or two people per city wont' make a difference on operations of this scale.