Climategate

[Merlyn]

it is all the fault of the cows!
Sounds like BS to me....

Sulphur... Oh yes that's a good one!

Then we just have acid rain!
That kills all the trees and the oceans and we all die. GREAT solution... NOT!

Now go back to the OZONE hole thing......
We just need another hole for a while and let some of the CO2 out ... not...

Or we could just stop polluting..

[DJ Droood]

Add to that, that although you say that "it is supposed to go hand in hand with carbon reductions..not as a subsitute." I do geel these proposals for a techno-fix are going to be seen as reasons (yet more reasons...) why we don't actually have to addess CO2 so urgently.

Probably right....and I find it alarming too....but it is a proposed solution, perhaps something to consider.......so far, the alternative seems to be calling people selfish and stupid and telling them the party is over...how does that seem to be working out? About as well as a bunch of prohibitionists singing hyms outside a bar on New Year's Eve. Maybe next year people will want to listen.

[Guardian]

Decrease the world population to 1900 levels (<2 billion— a pandemic that is 67% fatal would do it)

I'll get to work on that!!

[Merlyn]

Obama is already on the case, trying to cut Medicare for our older generation.
That should reduce the methane problem by 20% (not funny)(off topic...) Let's all get raptured!
(I am an old fart...after all.. )
healthy scepticism is the foundation of good science.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ethicalman/2 ... icism.html
Some food for thought, on "global warming"
and of course, climate change...

[Twig]

BOO! That was awful, Merlyn...

Loved the Ethical Man video. Thanks for posting it... Sir David did point out that the situation as it is right now is "in the pipeline for the next 30 years," so I think it is hard to get our attention-span-challenged population motivated to make the vast changes that are necessary to help change the future for younger generations.

[DJ Droood]

Sir David did point out that the situation as it is right now is "in the pipeline for the next 30 years," so I think it is hard to get our attention-span-challenged population motivated to make the vast changes that are necessary to help change the future for younger generations.

It is not going to happen. People are not going to stop shopping, flying and driving until they have to, and they don't. If someone chooses to live a noble, virtuous, exemplary 0 carbon life, they should get the Super Druid award, but the only thing that will save humanity is science...nuclear power and crazy cloud seeding schemes and the like.

[Explorer]

Sir David did point out that the situation as it is right now is "in the pipeline for the next 30 years," so I think it is hard to get our attention-span-challenged population motivated to make the vast changes that are necessary to help change the future for younger generations.

It is not going to happen. People are not going to stop shopping, flying and driving until they have to, and they don't. If someone chooses to live a noble, virtuous, exemplary 0 carbon life, they should get the Super Druid award, but the only thing that will save humanity is science...nuclear power and crazy cloud seeding schemes and the like.

Or one generation not having children, that would solve all the worlds problems wouldn't it?

[DJ Droood]

Sir David did point out that the situation as it is right now is "in the pipeline for the next 30 years," so I think it is hard to get our attention-span-challenged population motivated to make the vast changes that are necessary to help change the future for younger generations.

It is not going to happen. People are not going to stop shopping, flying and driving until they have to, and they don't. If someone chooses to live a noble, virtuous, exemplary 0 carbon life, they should get the Super Druid award, but the only thing that will save humanity is science...nuclear power and crazy cloud seeding schemes and the like.

Or one generation not having children, that would solve all the worlds problems wouldn't it?

hmmmmm....who would change my nappies when I am old, then?

[Explorer]

hmmmmm....who would change my nappies when I am old, then?

You know what? I'll change yours when you change mine.

But if you think about it, if you have one kid less then you can use all the resources you want, polute all you want, and still be 'CO2-neutral'. Because your ecological footprint will never exceed the ecological footprint of that kid with all its offspring attached.

Perhaps we are focusing on the wrong thing. There are way too many people, and everybody knows it. But it is built into our genes to keep making more. (well, in your genes, I am a mutation, I don't have kids, so I can polute all I want). Forget the CO2, we now still have time to peacefully produce less people and save the planet, before she saves herself.

In my country we are now into our 4th plague, animal-wise. After the pigs (swine flu), cows (foot and mouth) and chickens (bird flue) they are now killing the pregnant goats and sheep (ku fever). Are we next?

[Fiacharrey]

I think it is hard to get our attention-span-challenged population motivated to make the vast changes that are necessary to help change the future for younger generations.

Yes.... we must force them at gunpoint. And to be able to do that, of course, we need one world government which can force everyone to obey its mandates.

[Merlyn]

The bible says...
That the time of mass destruction will last seven years, and the war 20

So let's do the math;
We began in 2001 with the destruction of the world trade center and all manner of natural disasters, spreading of virus, tsunamis, hurricanes, fires and the like. So... 2009 now. That should about do it

We began the war between the religions with Ayatollah Khomeini in the late 70s and are finishing it up now, with the Iran vs Israel nightmare about to happen.
Not sure if they are going to knock down the mosque and re-build King Solomon's temple yet, but who knows, Jesus might feel fine with the grand Muslim mosque and save a few construction $$, he is a good sort with being a carpenter and all.

So... we might all see this as the end of the mess, watch all the disciples get raptured, and thus have lots fewer humans left after-all.
Seems to fit the time-line anyway
Last detail, the anti-Christ

we need one world government which can force everyone to obey its mandates

.
We have the UN, the space station, (the city in the sky) and the euro.
Close enough and with the global warming summit, a nice kind of science that defies religion, kind of an anti-Christ sort of thing..

Avoiding any bad jokes for a spell..
Merlyn

[DJ Droood]

But if you think about it, if you have one kid less then you can use all the resources you want, polute all you want, and still be 'CO2-neutral'. Because your ecological footprint will never exceed the ecological footprint of that kid with all its offspring attached.

I am sooo bad....I have two pairs of filty little carbon footprints following after me....am I an eco-criminal?

Forget the CO2, we now still have time to peacefully produce less people and save the planet, before she saves herself.

Perhaps you should modify your sex magic. But your final point is very valid...all the anthropocentric religious talk about "Gaia needs us/Be good shepherds" is whistling into the wind when She decides She's had enough of us.

[Kernos]

There are way too many people, and everybody knows it. But it is built into our genes to keep making more. (well, in your genes, I am a mutation, I don't have kids, so I can polute all I want). Forget the CO2, we now still have time to peacefully produce less people and save the planet, before she saves herself.

Being non-human, I chuckle at all this, having seen it so-many times throughout your galaxy. When a sentient culture reaches the point of being able to effect climate on a planetary scale, they either solve the problems and take one more step towards joining the universal community, extinct themselves, or their civilization falls and they start over. Genes willing, it is your choice. FWIW, we do keep sufficient samples to recreate any sentient species in our banks. Perhaps that will provide some comfort.

Good luck!

[Guardian]

In my country we are now into our 4th plague, animal-wise. After the pigs (swine flu), cows (foot and mouth) and chickens (bird flue) they are now killing the pregnant goats and sheep (ku fever). Are we next?

YES! but no reason to be gloomy. I always like to think of the "Black Death" in europe as an excellent example. Through famine, drought, and overcrowding, an epidemic was born which eliminated just enough people for there to be enough food and water to go around. We will have another Flu of 1918 type situation eventually... if H1N1 had been 1/2 as virulent as that flu was, we would be looking at millions dead right now, and with worldwide travel as easy as it is today, perhaps billions. All it takes is the the right recombination... and WHAM! population control taken care of.

I have always been tempted to nudge the process along though...

[Merlyn]

It might just a bit of a hard sell, that global warming thing...
We are about to get two feet of snow, tonight!
The temperatures are steady, nights in the upper 20s
This is the coldest winter in 20 years here.
(and its not even winter yet..)
It might...just be over.
this cycle of climate change..that is.
Cold winters are known for culling the herd, so to speak.
Getting ready for the return of the Vikings,
Merlyn

[Explorer]

In my country we are now into our 4th plague, animal-wise. After the pigs (swine flu), cows (foot and mouth) and chickens (bird flue) they are now killing the pregnant goats and sheep (ku fever). Are we next?

YES! but no reason to be gloomy. I always like to think of the "Black Death" in europe as an excellent example. Through famine, drought, and overcrowding, an epidemic was born which eliminated just enough people for there to be enough food and water to go around. We will have another Flu of 1918 type situation eventually... if H1N1 had been 1/2 as virulent as that flu was, we would be looking at millions dead right now, and with worldwide travel as easy as it is today, perhaps billions. All it takes is the the right recombination... and WHAM! population control taken care of.

I have always been tempted to nudge the process along though...

Exactly, you are saying what I was thinking. And it is just a matter of statisics, it has happened before and it will happen again.
*grin*, so that's why you are studying microbiology? Are you designing a super virus to safe the planet? Have you ever seen this movie? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_monkeys

[Merlyn]

Our Global WARMING up-date of today

RECORD BREAKING DECEMBER SNOWFALL FOR BALTIMORE-WASHINGTON METROPOLITAN AREAS BRINGING HAZARDOUS WINTER WEATHER TO THE REGION LAST NIGHT INTO TODAY...
TOTAL STORM SNOWFALL TOTALS OF 1 TO 2 FEET ARE FORECASTED TO OCCUR IN THE BALTIMORE-WASHINGTON METROPOLITAN AREAS BY DAWN SUNDAY... WHICH SHOULD ECLIPSE THE DECEMBER RECORDS FOR BOTH CITIES. THE RECORD TWO-DAY DECEMBER SNOWFALL FOR WASHINGTON IS 12.0 INCHES IN 1932... AND FOR BALTIMORE TO RECORD IS 14.1 INCHES IN 1960.
SHOULD ACCUMULATIONS EXCEED 14 INCHES... THIS STORM WILL MAKE THE LIST OF THE ALL-TIME TOP 10 SNOWSTORMS ON RECORD FOR BOTH CITIES.

Now, on to climate change

Snow09.jpg (107.61 KiB) Viewed 397 times

[DJ Droood]

Our Global WARMING up-date of today

Local observation is important, but I wonder if it is possible to accurately infer global trends, either climactic, social or geo-political, from the day to day doin's and happenin's outside your kitchen window in Monkey's Eyebrow, Kentucky?

[Merlyn]

Global warming up-date from our window

Snow2.jpg (57.52 KiB) Viewed 381 times

Some good Value added reality eh?
Must be that "reverse" CO2 affect they left out of the e-mails

Good time to re-think the data

From our fireplace to yours
Merlyn /|\

[Guardian]

*grin*, so that's why you are studying microbiology? Are you designing a super virus to safe the planet?

I'm not at liberty to discuss that information... [/quote]

Have you ever seen this movie? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_monkeys

YES! Brad Pitt's best performance by far, excellent film!

And Meryln, local observation does not account for the change in average temperatures globally, or cyclical fluctuation in average temperatures due to the El Nino/La Nina effects. Though I'm sure you don't need to be told that.

google-scholar is an amazing thing: http://www.atmos.berkeley.edu/~jchiang/ ... 3/gv91.pdf
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/a ... 2/5643/269
http://livinggreenbarrie.com/LvGnGlblWarmgIPCCRpt.pdf

It's one thing to understand that it will likely not be as catastrophic as Al Gore predicted (the 10m rise in sea level would take about 1750 years at current rates), and it's another thing to completely reject all evidence and any responsibility.

Is it so hard to understand that something needs to be addressed, without being convinced that it means our imminent demise? H1N1 is a perfect example. Yes, something that has targeted youth and pregnant women, and which has spread transcontinental quite quickly should be closely monitored and people should be aware of it. Does it mean we're all going to die? NO! This flawed thinking that something is either the end of us all or nothing to be concerned with is fed by US media, and it's extremely dangerous. (IMO)