Himalayan glacier meltdown is not scientifically based

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This subforum is for discussions of any issues and concerns that impact the environment, such as biodiversity, global climate change, genetically engineered plants and animals, human population, animal and nature conservation, natural disasters, etc. Host: Kernos

Himalayan glacier meltdown is not scientifically based

Postby Kernos » 21 Jan 2010, 19:35

http://www.india-server.com/news/leadin ... 19822.html

It is important to note that the IPCC is a political organization, not a scientific one.

Leading Academics Reject Warning On Melting Himalayan Glaciers
Last Updated : 2010-01-21T18:01:44+05:30

Questioning the warning by UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) that Himalayan glaciers could melt to a fifth of current levels by 2035, four leading academics term it as wildly inaccurate. The IPCC has also retracted the warning, which had appeared in its 2007 report.

The claim that Himalayan glaciers may disappear by 2035 requires a 25-fold greater loss rate from 1999 to 2035 than that estimated for 1960 to 1999, the four academics led by J Graham Cogley, a professor at Ontario Trent University, said in a letter to the journal Science.

"It conflicts with knowledge of glacier climate relationships, and is wrong," he said. "Nevertheless it has captured the global imagination and has been repeated in good faith often, including recently by the IPCC's chairman (R.K. Pachauri)."

Cogley was joined in criticising lax IPCC standards on checking out climate change claims by Jeffrey S. Kargel, University of Arizona, Tucson; G. Kaser, Institut for Geographie, University of Innsbruck, Austria and C. J. van der Veen, University of Kansas, Lawrence.

"These errors could have been avoided had the norms of scientific publication, including peer review and concentration upon peer-reviewed work, been respected," they said.

A recent News of the Week story on Himalayan glaciers "highlights how inadequately reviewed material makes its way into the public consciousness", Cogley and colleagues said, noting: "One source, Working Group II (WG-II) of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reproduces several errors."

"The Working Group writes that 'glaciers in the Himalayas are receding faster than in any other part of the world' and that 'the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 and perhaps sooner is very high if the Earth keeps warming at the current rate. Its total area will likely shrink from the present 500,000 to 100,000 km2 by the year 2035.'

"Another source advances a no less mistaken conjecture, not discussed in the news story, that Himalayan glaciers are responding to the climate of as long as 15,000 years ago," the four academics said.

"The IPCC fourth assessment report of 2007, particularly of the physical science basis for the changes, is mostly accurate, but the first WG-II sentence derives from a World Wildlife Fund (WWF) report, which cites a news story about an unpublished study that neither compares Himalayan glaciers with other rates of recession nor estimates a date for disappearance of Himalayan glaciers," they said.

WWF has since apologised for having carried the unsubstantiated claim.

The academics also said Himalayan rates of recession in the WG-II report are not exceptional, noting: "In the second WG-II sentence, 'its' cannot refer to Himalayan glaciers [area about 33,000 sq km], and may refer to the world total area of glaciers and ice caps."

A bibliographic search suggests that the second WG-II sentence is copied inaccurately from another source, in which the predicted date for shrinkage of the world total from 500,000 to 100,000 sq km is 2350, not 2035, the academics said.


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Re: Himalayan glacier meltdown is not scientifically based

Postby lkhedley » 22 Jan 2010, 13:25

Good heavens, this steady trickle of bad news -however, relatively minor, is so disproportionately harmful to the serious concern of climate change. I understand, or at least want to believe, that these errors and mistatements have come into the dialogue out of honest error. But, they are taken up by the opponents and heralded as the Dies Irae of global warming.

I am afraid that this issue has reached such an intensity that its adherents and opponents look upon one another as active agents of evil. In America, at least, no possibility for debate remains. One has simply to tally the sides and reach a legislative conclusion. This is sad and bodes illfor the consistency of any effort we make, as actions will ebb and wane according to public support. Those of you in the UK and Europe are so lucky to have reached a positive and sustained consensus.

Given, the sorry state of affairs here in the States, proponents of the matter can not afford to cover up errors or compound them by sophistry and dissembling. One issue we must face is the possibility that ideology has been allowed to creep into our science and color its results.
I do not say that evidence of such idealogical taint is indisputable, but it definately does not pass the "smell test".

Anti-intellectualism is so deeply grained within the American pysche, it is no wonder that academia can feel beseiged. That fact however, cannot be allowed to justify a besieged attitude. If science is to be effective, it must remain aloof from politics. It must ignore the anti-intellectual bias. It must also attempt to ignore the influence of political correctness - a problem rampant on both sides of the Atlantic - but that is another matter.

Again, I am not accusing anyone in the field of deliberately presenting false science. I am simply making an appeal to remain vigilent against ideology so that science can be relied upon as a neutral source of facts when addressing climate change and other issues in the future.

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Re: Himalayan glacier meltdown is not scientifically based

Postby Kernos » 22 Jan 2010, 17:31

Lyle, I completely agree with you. I felt guilty while posting this, as it seemed I was giving weapons to the enemy.

Reminding myself that the IPCC is a political organization helps some. But, that will be irrelevant to the voters. Politicians and those with the mindsets necessary to be a politician are unable to understand much less deal with such things as global warming and science. Perhaps Plato was right and it is the time for the rise of the Philosopher Kings. Unfortunately, I do not think any Philosopher King would ever have the ability to get and maintain the power necessary to maintain control and still remain a Philosopher.

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Re: Himalayan glacier meltdown is not scientifically based

Postby mwyalchen » 22 Jan 2010, 18:58

Lets be clear about what is actually being said.

Himalayan glaciers are indeed retreating, as are other glaciers. (So your title for this thread rather overstates things, Kernos.)

What is being retracted is the claim that it's happening so fast that they might be gone by 2035.

I find the idea that they're simply retreating at the same rate as the others quite troubling enough, thankyou!
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