folk song

Discuss music and musical instruments and lore, offer your musical efforts for promotion, critique and listening.

folk song

Postby wyeuro » 05 Mar 2011, 01:51

here's my latest soundclick song :)

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=10338304

i agonise over whether to sing folksongs in my natural accent or to attempt to imitate the accents of native singers of the songs. i've tried to copy accents by closely imitating folksingers from scotland, ireland, america, different parts of england etc, but wondered if it isn't after all better not to? what made me decide to keep going was hearing irish folksingers doing their best attempt at an australian accent doing eg the band played walzing matilda, and was so pleased with it, even when it lapsed that i thought even if i'm not quite perfect, it's still better than not having a go. lately a few people are saying encouraging things about my efforts. what do others think? should i give up and just sing in oz?

wyverne /|\
visit my druid blog: http://wyldwyverne.wordpress.com/

images/smilies/gold-acorn.gif

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

in the peace of the grove
User avatar
wyeuro
OBOD Druid
 
Posts: 1602
Age: 61
Joined: 20 May 2003, 08:36
Location: oz
Gender: Female

Re: folk song

Postby malcolmb » 05 Mar 2011, 10:12

A lovely song beautifully performed. As for accents, go with your heart rather than the mind. As soon as you start singing a folk song, you will feel instinctively the accent that works. I personally see no reason why Waltzing Matilda should not be sung in Russian or Strawberry Fair sung in Serbo Croat! If which ever accent you choose feels right, it is right.

Blessings
Malcolm
Image - 2008 LI; 2009 IL/BS/SB; 2010 IL; 2011 IM; 2011 SB

Isle of Wight Druid Grove:
http://www.wightdruids.com

Find my free Celtic / Folk music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/lylemusic
Find my free Jazz / Swing /Classical music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/malcolmbrown
Videos featuring my music:
http://www.youtube.com/user/LyleMusic
User avatar
malcolmb
OBOD Ovate
 
Posts: 143
Age: 63
Joined: 21 Jun 2008, 18:49
Location: Isle of Wight, England
Gender: Male

Re: folk song

Postby Susanne » 05 Mar 2011, 14:36

Beautiful Wyverne! Keep on singing where ever you are. :D
I'd say that tailoring the accent to the song shows great flexibility & makes it more fun to listen to (& also to sing I would imagine).
Sue
User avatar
Susanne
OBOD Bard
 
Posts: 646
Age: 54
Joined: 19 Sep 2010, 23:18
Location: The Green Mountains of Vermont
Gender: Female

Re: folk song

Postby wyeuro » 06 Mar 2011, 02:06

thanks, malcolm and sue. very kind encouraging things to say. and yes, that's just the point - it's more fun when i go with my inner heart, when it's most fun and joy for me in the singing of it. that's the best of what i've got to share.
:hug: :hug:
wy
visit my druid blog: http://wyldwyverne.wordpress.com/

images/smilies/gold-acorn.gif

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

in the peace of the grove
User avatar
wyeuro
OBOD Druid
 
Posts: 1602
Age: 61
Joined: 20 May 2003, 08:36
Location: oz
Gender: Female

Re: folk song

Postby skydove » 06 Mar 2011, 12:39

I think singing is a bit like acting you take on the personality of the song and hopefully it pours forth. It's a great sometimes I'm a sea captain ,a hippopotamus, a miner, a wounded hero or a pining lover all in the space of half an hour or so.
I like to sing using the dialect words of the area the song is from so yes I suppose I do try to imitate the accents too, it all adds to the richness of feeling. One of the worst things to my ears is hearing a roilicking folk song sung with posh english voices -the chorale tradition, it sounds so dishonest.
User avatar
skydove
OBOD Ovate
 
Posts: 913
Age: 57
Joined: 22 May 2008, 19:04
Location: Warwickshire
Gender: Female

Re: folk song

Postby wyeuro » 07 Mar 2011, 02:56

oh acting would be wonderful. yes i try to take on the character - never quite sure how far to take it, whether i'm over-acting or not. a music teacher told me that you do have to lay it on thick, and yes, it depends on the singer whether you can pull it off or not. some can others can't.
wy
visit my druid blog: http://wyldwyverne.wordpress.com/

images/smilies/gold-acorn.gif

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

in the peace of the grove
User avatar
wyeuro
OBOD Druid
 
Posts: 1602
Age: 61
Joined: 20 May 2003, 08:36
Location: oz
Gender: Female

Re: folk song

Postby Jack Greenman » 25 Apr 2012, 12:44

Hi, Wyeuro,

Excuse me for warming this thread up so late, but I've just joined the forum, and found your posting very interesting.

First of all, your "Wildwood Flower" sounds just fine. But then, it's not really a folk song. It may be of American origin, but it's an art song, and the lyrics are written in standard English, so any British, American or Colonial accent would fit. The song only got its aura of folksiness because Maybelle Carter, whose recording made it popular, had a very strong regional accent. So unless you want to cover Maybelle's version, you don't have to copy her accent. (And if you did want to cover it, you'd also have to copy her guitar picking, which is at least as definitive as her singing!)

Songs with lines like "I ain't got no-one to love," on the other hand, sound silly when sung with an Irish, Scots or English (except Cockney) accent, because "ain't" and the double negative just aren't part of those languages, and they jar.

So my advice would be to be guided by the lyrics of the song itself, rather than by the accent of the recording artist you've learnt it from.

I'm an Ulsterman born and bred, so the bulk of my songs are Irish, which is no problem. And I spent 6 years of my childhood in Scotland, so I've got the clear vowels and rolling "r" that Scots songs call for.
My take on songs from other parts of the English-speaking world is to try them in Received Pronunciation (with my slight Ulster-Scots colouring) and see whether I trip over some dialect word that doesn't sound right in RP, or some rhyme that doesn't work. If I do, I try to sing a "light" version of the dialect in question. Not everyone can do this - it's a gift that runs in my family. My father could mimic accents, so can I, and so can my son. My son and I have the added advantage of having been immersed in different dialects of our mother tongues (he in German, I in English) during childhood. But it's something you can work on, in addition to your vocal and instrumental skills.

I have few problems with songs from your country, like "Waltzing Matilda" or "The Dying Stockman". They contain "Australianisms" like "billbong" and "dingoes", but these are not dialect words as such - they're the Oz words for Oz phenomena for which British English has no equivalent, so they've found their way into standard English, and they don't jar on the ear. (Well, they might jar on an Aussie ear! When I sing these songs, I ask any Aussies in the audience to imagine that I'm an Irish immigrant who has turned swagman or stockman. :wink: )

Songs by Robert Burns can be a problem when sung by non-Scots. Some of them can be "anglicised" (like changing "An' I sae weary, fu' o' care" to "And I so weary, full of care"), but many contain so much Broad Scots vocabulary that this is not posible. And using the accent of one language with the vocabulary of another really is incongruous.

There are lots of songs that refer to definite places in specific regions or countries (Scarborough Fair, Star of the Co. Down, Loch Lomond ...), but I approach these like art songs - if they're written in standard English, the accent doesn't matter. After all, you could be a holiday-maker who has fallen in love with the place mentioned. :innocent:

Have fun with your international repertoire. Make each song your own, and then you won't have to worry about the accent!

Blessings,
Jack Greenman
User avatar
Jack Greenman
 
Posts: 39
Age: 66
Joined: 04 Mar 2012, 21:28
Location: Germany
Gender: Male

Re: folk song

Postby malcolmb » 25 Apr 2012, 14:31

Hi Jack Greenman - Interesting. Just out of curiosity, do you post your music anywhere on the web? I would very much like to hear it.

Blessings
Malcolm
Image - 2008 LI; 2009 IL/BS/SB; 2010 IL; 2011 IM; 2011 SB

Isle of Wight Druid Grove:
http://www.wightdruids.com

Find my free Celtic / Folk music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/lylemusic
Find my free Jazz / Swing /Classical music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/malcolmbrown
Videos featuring my music:
http://www.youtube.com/user/LyleMusic
User avatar
malcolmb
OBOD Ovate
 
Posts: 143
Age: 63
Joined: 21 Jun 2008, 18:49
Location: Isle of Wight, England
Gender: Male

Re: folk song

Postby Jack Greenman » 25 Apr 2012, 21:04

malcolmb wrote:Hi Jack Greenman - Interesting. Just out of curiosity, do you post your music anywhere on the web? I would very much like to hear it.


Hi, Malcolm,

I'm not really the recording type, I need the adrenalin kick of a live gig. :wink: But I do use an MD recorder for practising, and occasionally something presentable emerges. I've put a few of them up on my homepage: http://www.johndallas.de --> Music Room --> MP3 Playlist. Not studio quality, but by all means have a listen, and let me know what you think!

Blessings,
Jack Greenman
User avatar
Jack Greenman
 
Posts: 39
Age: 66
Joined: 04 Mar 2012, 21:28
Location: Germany
Gender: Male

Re: folk song

Postby wyeuro » 26 Apr 2012, 04:09

thanks so much for your thoughts. your waltzing matilda is a sheer joy to listen to, jack. it's not hard to imagine the early aussies still with their irish accents. so many of us are of irish descent and fiercely proud of it. there was a lot of irish spoken in the early days of the colony.
visit my druid blog: http://wyldwyverne.wordpress.com/

images/smilies/gold-acorn.gif

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

in the peace of the grove
User avatar
wyeuro
OBOD Druid
 
Posts: 1602
Age: 61
Joined: 20 May 2003, 08:36
Location: oz
Gender: Female

Re: folk song

Postby malcolmb » 26 Apr 2012, 09:06

Hi Jack Greenman - Sincere thanks and a true delight to listen to your excellent music. You have a wonderful voice. I also very much enjoyed browsing through your website. Fascinating and definitely informative! I do know what you mean about needing the electricity of a gig - it was a very long time ago when I used to 'perform' - amazing what abject fear can do to the quality of a performance! :grin:

Blessings
Malcolm
Image - 2008 LI; 2009 IL/BS/SB; 2010 IL; 2011 IM; 2011 SB

Isle of Wight Druid Grove:
http://www.wightdruids.com

Find my free Celtic / Folk music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/lylemusic
Find my free Jazz / Swing /Classical music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/malcolmbrown
Videos featuring my music:
http://www.youtube.com/user/LyleMusic
User avatar
malcolmb
OBOD Ovate
 
Posts: 143
Age: 63
Joined: 21 Jun 2008, 18:49
Location: Isle of Wight, England
Gender: Male

Re: folk song

Postby Jack Greenman » 27 Apr 2012, 12:08

@ Malcolm: Thanks for the compliment! I must reveal that the voice is the only instrument I actually studied. My singing teacher taught me Schuber Lieder and Handel arias for competitions, but she also said that I did folk songs well, and even got me gigs singing to the guitar-lute.

@ wyeuro: Glad you liked "Waltzing Matilda"!
Browsing the sub-forum, I noticed that you posted about "Moreton Bay" some time ago. Now, this is one Aussie song that I have absolutely no compunction about singing - the line "I am a native of Erin's island, though banished now from my native shore" gives me all the licence I need!

I learned this song from the LP "Click go the Shears" by William Clauson. He sings the version in the folk-song resource you linked to. The tune is in fact an Irish one, "Youghal Harbour", which is in Colm O Lochlainn's collection of "Irish Street Ballads", where it is identical note by note with the Australian resource, only in F rather than C.

Speaking of acting when singing: The lyrics of both "Youghal Harbour" and "Moreton Bay" are in the "as I roved out" format, which is common in folk-songs. The singer is roving, or walking, or strolling in some relevant locality - city street, country lane, dockside, river bank, etc. - and overhears some soliloqy or dialogue, which he quotes verbatim and in the first person. This means that a man can sing a maiden's lament, or a woman can sing of a sailor's love, or a free man can lament a convict's fate, without breaking the bounds of credibility. After all, you're only quoting the words; but if you do this with feeling, you sort of become transparent, and the listener hears the protagonist speaking, and sympathises with him or her.

I must say, this is a very interesting forum - why didn't I get here earlier? :)

Blessings,
Jack Greenman
User avatar
Jack Greenman
 
Posts: 39
Age: 66
Joined: 04 Mar 2012, 21:28
Location: Germany
Gender: Male

Re: folk song

Postby wyeuro » 27 Apr 2012, 21:32

yes, indeed, why not? we've been needing you. oh yes, many a swagman could claim to have 'travelled the bushes of australia like a trueborn irishman'. they came after gold and there are some lovely goldrush songs. folksongs are small miracles, springing up wherever there are folk.
visit my druid blog: http://wyldwyverne.wordpress.com/

images/smilies/gold-acorn.gif

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

in the peace of the grove
User avatar
wyeuro
OBOD Druid
 
Posts: 1602
Age: 61
Joined: 20 May 2003, 08:36
Location: oz
Gender: Female


Return to Music Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest