Ley Lines; All over the World or just in Europe?

[wolf560]

Something I have always been interested in.....
Friends of mine have always said that there are LeyLines in the USA



What is the deal?

Can it only be in Europe or just in the U.K.?
Can they also exist in the Americas?

[Huathe]

It would seem to make no sense that they would be just present in Europe. Ley lines are something I have studied very little but aren't they energy lines or magnetic field lines from the planet? If so they should be found globally.

[Lily]

Or not at all. This being the sceptical druid...

[Dragonwyst]

They are recognised in Australia as Song lines or Dragon lines.

[Merlyn]

http://liminalthresholds.blogspot.com/2 ... -maps.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Heo0b8eP4r0&feature=user

[helenoftheways]

Merlyn, I had a good browse of the link to Peter Champoux that you posted, thank you. He seems to have fun with Google Earth, but - to me - it seems he has just projected his lines cybernetically across the face of the earth....has he actually experienced the energies of these lines along their pathways across the world? I think not, although I could be wrong of course, I don't know the man. In the UK, and other countries, ley lines have been mapped through personal experience of the energies, through dowsing & other means.

I was surprised at the emphasis on the USA! When I went to an international conference on 'Earth's Fields and their Influence on Organisms' in Druskininkai in Lithuania, in 2008, to commemorate the International Year of Planet Earth (organised by the Baltic Dowsers` Association & Institute of Geology and Geography of Vilnius Pedagogical University - only one person from the US attended! I was most surprised actually. There were Brits, French, Germans, Russians, people from all over the Baltic countries & Scandinavia - but only one American, who confided in me that he was considered as a Very Peculiar Person where he came from!! (He was a professional guy, an engineer if I remember rightly.)

So yes, ley lines extend all over the planet & I expect each country has its local experts/knowledgeable folks who are privately mapping these lines for their own personal satisfaction, although possibly not publishing them.

Just my

[Donata]

Yes, ley lines - the meridians of the earth - exist all over the planet. They may have different names in different areas, but have been recognized for ages. There are also power centers - similar to planetary chakras - around the world.

Donata

[Explorer]

They are basically just lines that are drawn through places of geographical interest, like ancient monuments, churches, hill tops etc.
We humans are very good at connecting all kinds of dots, and when you do that you get patterns... and lines.

In new age circles people believe that these lines radiate some sort of "energy", espcially where they intersect.
Nothing can be measured with intruments, this 'energy' does not exist in the realm of physical reality, but in the imaginary and spiritual realms.
But dowsers somehow respond to it, especially when they know that it should be there. Which suggests that both leylines and dowsing are in the same lballpark.

If you want to do a tiny experiment to feel how 'energy' in the imaginary realm feels like, then do the following.
Get a pen, or even your finger, point it at the middle of your brow at about a feet away, and bring it to your brow very slowly. Feel the tension building? That is imaginary energy.
Now repeat the experiment with your eyes closed and with somebody else moving the pen. Make sure that you don't know when the other person moves the pen (so no sounds, no shadows falling over your face, etc). Repeat this several times and note that sometimes you feel the tension building when no pen is in the vicinity, and sometimes you feel nothing when the pen is almost touching your brow. Welcome to the science of 'spiritual energy' ;-).

So, sure you can draw lines in the USA also. Pick some interesting spots that lie on a straight line, and voila, you have your ley line. You may even dowse for it if you believe in it strongly enough. (dowsing never seems to work for me for some reason ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley_line

[helenoftheways]

(dowsing never seems to work for me for some reason ).

I'm not at all surprised, Nico!!

My very first experience of dowsing was at a workshop run in SW London by a master dowser who has since become a good friend. There were about 15 of us, and he eventually took us out to a field nearby & said that there was an underground waterway somewhere there, and we were going to find it. We raised eyebrows, as we were all rank amateurs. He lined us up in a straight line at one end of the field, each with dowsing rod in hand, and we started walking. I was with a friend who was a complete sceptic (like yourself!). After about 25 - 30 paces, all of a sudden, the rods of every single person crossed decisively at the same time & we all stopped dead in our tracks! My friend looked astonished & kept saying to me "I didn't do that!" - as did many of the others!

I called it the Death of a Sceptic!

[Explorer]

(dowsing never seems to work for me for some reason ).

I'm not at all surprised, Nico!!

My very first experience of dowsing was at a workshop run in SW London by a master dowser who has since become a good friend. There were about 15 of us, and he eventually took us out to a field nearby & said that there was an underground waterway somewhere there, and we were going to find it. We raised eyebrows, as we were all rank amateurs. He lined us up in a straight line at one end of the field, each with dowsing rod in hand, and we started walking. I was with a friend who was a complete sceptic (like yourself!). After about 25 - 30 paces, all of a sudden, the rods of every single person crossed decisively at the same time & we all stopped dead in our tracks! My friend looked astonished & kept saying to me "I didn't do that!" - as did many of the others!

I called it the Death of a Sceptic!

Oh, I'm willing to die, don't get me wrong, I'll be a martyr for truth . And I do 'believe' in experiences, even when they seem to defy explanations.

I'm sure it could work for me if I would want it to, but I am using dowsing as evidence of the power of our minds. I want to see it as it really is, whatever that is, without falling into the trap of all kind of popular new age explanations that nobody can prove.


That dowsing doesn't work for me, because I don't believe in it, seems to suggests that it only works when you believe in it. The power of imagination.
Which is totally fine with me. That power IS a real (mental) power, because we use it and change our lives with it. I think magic works the same way, and am able to convince myself to believe that it works, and it indeed works for me.

I only have a problem with it when it goes over the top and people start claiming things that they cannot know or prove, then it becomes silly. Why not simply leave it at the level of experience? Dare to say "I don't know", because that leads to more understanding than making questionable claims that nobody can proof. (I'm not saying that you do, just speaking in general).

If I would see everybody stop dead in their tracks like you explained then it wouldn't change how I feel about it, I would still come to the conclusion that I don't know what causes it. But my bet would be that it would be something simpler than unmeasurable energy lines. I get the same feeling when I see flocks of birds migrating, salmon runs, animals fleeing before a flood arrives. How the hell do they do that? I don't know. Which I find a better answer than 'ancient dragon lines'.

[helenoftheways]

Hello again, Nico!

I find it a little strange that you 'believe in' magic, but not in dowsing - even though it's a kind of magic in its way! Believe me, even the most dyed-in-the-wool dowsers don't know how or why it works! And 'ancient Dragon lines' are just a description (as we use the term ley lines), not an explanation.

You seem to think people can find energy lines 'because they know they are there'. This doesn't hold up, I'm afraid. Who discovered them initially??

When I first used dowsing rods as a practising healer, it was at one of those mind-body-spirit fair thingies. A middle aged gent - very tall & healthy looking - saw the rods & asked me what they were for. I told him, and he said "well try them on me!" So I scanned his body from top to bottom, asking the rods to show where he had a health problem(s). When I got to the level of his knees, they crossed immediately. I told him it seemed that he must have some kind of weakness there - and he looked astonished!! He said he was having big probs with them and was due for an operation on one of them very soon!! Now how did I 'know' that?? I'd never seen the man in my life before!

So there ya go - take it or leave it!

(I don't know what I'm doing here....I should be off meeting a friend to go to the London Wetlands Centre any minute now! Seeya later! )

[helenoftheways]

(PS Sorry - we seem to have gone a tad off topic here!! )

[Explorer]

Hello again, Nico!

I find it a little strange that you 'believe in' magic, but not in dowsing - even though it's a kind of magic in its way! Believe me, even the most dyed-in-the-wool dowsers don't know how or why it works! And 'ancient Dragon lines' are just a description (as we use the term ley lines), not an explanation.

You seem to think people can find energy lines 'because they know they are there'. This doesn't hold up, I'm afraid. Who discovered them initially??

When I first used dowsing rods as a practising healer, it was at one of those mind-body-spirit fair thingies. A middle aged gent - very tall & healthy looking - saw the rods & asked me what they were for. I told him, and he said "well try them on me!" So I scanned his body from top to bottom, asking the rods to show where he had a health problem(s). When I got to the level of his knees, they crossed immediately. I told him it seemed that he must have some kind of weakness there - and he looked astonished!! He said he was having big probs with them and was due for an operation on one of them very soon!! Now how did I 'know' that?? I'd never seen the man in my life before!

So there ya go - take it or leave it!

(I don't know what I'm doing here....I should be off meeting a friend to go to the London Wetlands Centre any minute now! Seeya later! )

I believe in magic in the same way as I believe in dowsing, so we're at least on the same page there . I see them both as a combination of our minds interacting with our environment, in a non-supernatural way. You can find ley lines by looking at a map, and I think that is how they were 'discovered'. (people noticing that certain sacred sites lined up, meaningful concidence to them, statistics to me).

As for dowsing. The facts are that people find things while using them. The facts are not that dowsing rods, or energy, or ley lines, have anything to do with it. Other people use tea leafs, star alignments, tarot cards, flocks of birds, pendulums, aura watching, iriscopy channeling spirits and dozens of other methods.

The only common factor seems to be the people. I think we pick up a lot more unconsciously than consciously, like body language, smells, the way somebody looks and talks, and probably lots of stuff that we don't even know. And I think that using 'tricks' like dowsing or divination focuses that part of our minds, letting our bodies and minds respond accordingly.

I have closely looked at how dowsing physically works. Dowsers keep the rods almost horizontal, and when they 'find' something they seem to change the positions of their hands veeeery slighly downward, causing the rods to cross. Prove me wrong if you can please.

I think you would have found out about his knee problems if you would have used another method and was just as convinced that it would work.

[Merlyn]

Dowsing, it can work.
I did a kind of reality test of dowsing.
I walked across my property and the dowsing rods accurately pointed out the various lines, like water and power lines.
They pointed to some other points, where water rises, and the grass is very green.

Then I took a small tube and a level attached, and did it again. The rods did nothing when held in this level tube.
What this pointed out was that it was I who was finding the underground obstructions, lines ans such. I am the sensitive instrument, not the rods.

Interesting little experiment.

Merlyn /|\

[Explorer]

What this pointed out was that it was I who was finding the underground obstructions, lines ans such. I am the sensitive instrument, not the rods.

Interesting little experiment.

And that was exactly my point, the human factor.
Bravo for doing this experiment Merlyn!

[wolf560]

I asked this question originally because, as an American, I was curious about it.

I have actually been told that because I am an American I do not understand the phenomenon and that the American continent has no Ley Lines. The person telling me this was convinced that "Ley Lines only exist in England, and nowhere else". He seemed offended that I believed they existed world-wide and insisted that it was "Southern England...PERIOD". He was very offended when I told him that I thought his premise was "a little Wonky".

I work with trying to establish permanent self-sustaining kinetic manipulations.
I attempt to tie them in unobtrusively to naturally existing points of power.
These points I refer to as a 'Nexus', simply put a convergence of lines of energy.

By all definitions, these are convergent points where two (or more) Ley Lines meet.

I cannot imagine that the Earth saw fit to only place Ley Lines in one single place on its surface, but who am I to tell a planet (or a Deity, or whatever) to do with its natural resources. I personally believe that the UK was merely the first place to publish a set series of them and list them out with their correspondences...

[Heddwen]

Hi Wolf 560,
Briefly, going back to the original question here What is the deal?
and taking into consideration the other comments I'd suggest a field trip with this chap. Grab some L rods and away to go! Seriously, I feel that it's important to experience the thing first hand. Dowsing for leys is something that I first tried first hand a few years ago. I was astonished by the results.
We dowsed for leys around the new standing stone at Camlan, Mid Wales. Firstly a group of us dowsed blindfolded for the primary then the secondary leys, one at a time, with the help of an experienced dowser. Although this was not a highly scientific trial by any means, the tutor has always acheived the same results with groups establishing all the leys that are now staked by the stone. I've checked for hand dipping, hand movements and subconscious (or not) suggestibility, prefering to cross check with the map afterwards. I think that the blindfold and the repetition of results concludes evidence of leys.
I certainly think that there is a human factor involved, be it within the subconscious or not and this may or may not tie in with vibrational energy/healing work. I read somewhere that ideally we should be in touch with both intellect and intuition, the conscious mind and unconscious mind. I think it requires a sense of open mindedness and balance.

[Explorer]

What this pointed out was that it was I who was finding the underground obstructions, lines ans such. I am the sensitive instrument, not the rods.

Interesting little experiment.

And that was exactly my point, the human factor.
Bravo for doing this experiment Merlyn!

Why are the dowsers so silent all of a sudden?
I'm curious to hear what you guys think about this experiment and the results.

[helenoftheways]

Why are the dowsers so silent all of a sudden?

Because it's only the sceptics who like to make a lot of noise!! Dowsers don't really need scientific explanations - they experience, they know, they accept!

I'm curious to hear what you guys think about this experiment and the results.

I don't know what to think, as I don't understand..

Then I took a small tube and a level attached, and did it again. The rods did nothing when held in this level tube.

A tube with a level attached? I can't envision what he means, I'm afraid. Would Merlyn like to clarify this please? I know some dowsers' rods have the handle in a tube (and it still works) but I don't think this is what is meant.

[Explorer]

Dowsers don't really need scientific explanations - they experience, they know, they accept!

Ah, you KNOW and ACCEPT, well, nobody can argue with that ofcourse.
I know people who KNOW and ACCEPT that the entire planets biosphere walked off a boat in pairs after a hell of a flash flood, and who also KNOW and ACCEPT that I will burn in hell for not buying it. But I can save myself if I just KNOW and ACCEPT.

Sorry to say this, but this is Skeptical Druid, if you use arguments like this here then you are either not very clever, or a brave masochist.