Sengoidelc: Old Irish for Beginners

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Sengoidelc: Old Irish for Beginners

Postby Kernos » 11 Feb 2008, 23:54

Sengoidelc: Old Irish for Beginners
An introductory text to the Irish language as spoken around the eighth-century c.e., covering all aspects of the grammar in a clear and intuitive format.

David Stifter's Sengoídelc (SHAN-goy-delth) provides a comprehensive introduction to Old Irish grammar and metrics. Ideally suited for use as a course text and as a guide for the independent learner, this exhaustive handbook is also an invaluable reference work for students of Indo-European philology and historical linguistics. The author’s step-by-step presentation in an engaging styles lead the novice through the idiosyncracies of the language, such as initial mutations and the double inflection of verbs. Filled with translation exercises based on selections from Old Irish texts, the book provides a practical introduction to the language and its rich history. Sengoídelc opens the door to the fascinating world of Old Irish literature, famous not only for such gems as the Táin Bó Cúailgne (The Cattle Raid of Cúailgne) or lyrical nature poetry but also as a major source for the political and legal history of Ireland.

About the Author
David Stifter is a lecturer at the Institut für Sprachwissenschaft at the University of Vienna and chair of the Austrian Society for Celtic Studies.


This book, by David Stifter was published in 2006 by Syracuse Univ. Press, ISBN 978-0815630722 is given high praise by the 5 reviewers, US$29.70

It sounds like an excellent intro to Old Irish. I wonder if anyone is familiar with the book.

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Re: Sengoidelc: Old Irish for Beginners

Postby Beith » 12 Feb 2008, 00:11

Hi Kernos,

yes I have looked at it on several occasions and it is a very nice book (especially if one enjoys cartoon drawings of sheep!)

It's a useful book and designed as a "home schooling" course in Old Irish. That might be a little over-optimistic as I think that one needs a teacher to really understand many concepts in Old Irish but David Stifter is an excellent and renowned scholar and his book is by far the easiest access-level book for beginners. It's fair to say though in parts it still assumes some degree of understanding of some aspects of linguistics which might not be readily apparent to those who haven't studied in that or related fields. eg. I think in the first chapter he uses some terms that are not explained and that is a bit frustrating for an absolute beginner.
But that shouldn't put anyone off trying it as it's about the most user-friendly book on Old Irish so far.
It has some nice summary info on the language history and then goes step by step through various aspects of grammar, syntax, and with examples in Old Irish, English and German. The presentation is clear, concise and text is broken up by little cartoons and interesting snippets of information and pictures. I liked it very much when I saw it, but I also had the advantage of having a bit of Old Irish myself which made it easier for me (compared to a total beginner) to go through it and understand terminology and linguistic conventions.

If anyone is interested in the language and wants to have a go at learning something of it, I'd highly recommend it as an entry-level text; but one would also have to supplement it later as one proceeds with other standards in Old Irish such as R.Thurneysen's 'Grammar of Old Irish' and Strachan & Bergin's 'Old Irish Paradigms'. E.G. Quinn's 'Old Irish Workbook' is a useful little book of exercises for translation from Old Irish to English and vice-versa, but needs to be used in conjunction with the above recommended standard books in order to assist with the grammar, etc. When one advances a bit, Kim McCone's "First Old Irish Grammar and Reader" is an excellent book but definitely not I think a "first" reader as it assumes a level of knowledge that is far in excess of that of a beginner. The DIL (Dictionary of the Irish Language is an invaluable resource for Old Irish and early Middle Irish words) and is available in compact edition (but you need a microscope to see the text as it compresses 4 dictionary pages into one) and online at http://www.dil.ie (though I think the book is easier for searching).

best wishes
Beith
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Re: Sengoidelc: Old Irish for Beginners

Postby Kernos » 12 Feb 2008, 03:00

Thanks Beith. I may actually get this book. It was recommended that it be bought together with Strachen's Paradigms.

While following related links on Amazon (I am iced in today, everything is closed everywhere as SE Missouri is one big sheet of ice, so...), I ran across some fascinating linguistic sources:

How to Kill a Dragon: Aspects of Indo-European Poetics by Calvert Watkins ISBN: 0195144139

In How to Kill a Dragon Calvert Watkins follows the continuum of poetic formulae in Indo-European languages, from Old Hittite to medieval Irish. He uses the comparative method to reconstruct traditional poetic formulae of considerable complexity that stretch as far back as the original common language. Thus, Watkins reveals the antiquity and tenacity of the Indo-European poetic tradition. Watkins begins this study with an introduction to the field of comparative Indo-European poetics; he explores the Saussurian notions of synchrony and diachrony, and locates the various Indo-European traditions and ideologies of the spoken word. Further, his overview presents case studies on the forms of verbal art, with selected texts drawn from Indic, Iranian, Greek, Latin, Hittite, Armenian, Celtic, and Germanic languages. In the remainder of the book, Watkins examines in detail the structure of the dragon/serpent-slaying myths, which recur in various guises throughout the Indo-European poetic tradition. He finds the "signature" formula for the myth--the divine hero who slays the serpent or overcomes adversaries--occurs in the same linguistic form in a wide range of sources and over millennia, including Old and Middle Iranian holy books, Greek epic, Celtic and Germanic sagas, down to Armenian oral folk epic of the last century. Watkins argues that this formula is the vehicle for the central theme of a proto-text, and a central part of the symbolic culture of speakers of the Proto-Indo-European language: the relation of humans to their universe, the values and expectations of their society. Therefore, he further argues, poetry was a social necessity for Indo- European society, where the poet could confer on patrons what they and their culture valued above all else: "imperishable fame."


Indo-European Linguistics: An Introduction (Cambridge Textbooks in Linguistics) by James Clackson

Book Description
The Indo-European language family consists of many of the modern and ancient languages of Europe, India and Central Asia, including Latin, Greek, Sanskrit, Russian, German, French, Spanish and English. Spoken by an estimated three billion people, it has the largest number of native speakers in the world today. This textbook provides an accessible introduction to the study of the Indo-European languages. It clearly sets out the methods for relating the languages to one another, presents an engaging discussion of the current debates and controversies concerning their classification, and offers sample problems and suggestions for how to solve them. Complete with a comprehensive glossary, almost 100 tables in which language data and examples are clearly laid out, suggestions for further reading, discussion points, and a range of exercises, this text will be an essential toolkit for all those studying historical linguistics, language typology and the Indo-European languages for the first time.

About the Author
James Clackson is senior lecturer in the Faculty of Classics, University of Cambridge, and is Fellow and Director of Studies, Jesus College, University of Cambridge.


Italo-Celtic Origins and Prehistoric Development of the Irish Language (Leiden Studies in Indo-European 14) (Leiden Studies in Indo-European) (Hardcover) by Frederik Kortlandt (Author) This is post-doc level material.

And the remarkable An Atlas for Celtic Studies: Archaeology and Names in Ancient Europe and Early Medieval Britain and Brittany (Celtic Studies Publications) (Celtic Studies Publications) (Hardcover) Pricy at £50, US$100, but a fabulous resource.

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by John T. Koch (Author), Raimund Karl (Contributor), Antone Minard (Contributor), Simon O'faolain (Contributor)
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Re: Sengoidelc: Old Irish for Beginners

Postby Beith » 12 Feb 2008, 03:21

Hi Kernos,

Excellent sources you have there. I enjoy reading anything by Calvert Watkins - always fascinating, enlightening and spiritually as well as intellectually stimulating.

Re: Sengoidelc by D Stifter - yes I'd highly recommend that if you are going to buy a book that is a beginners guide to Old Irish. It's in soft oaper-back (but quite a large book like a medical textbook) so it shouldn't be too expensive.

The Old Irish Paradigms is an absolute necessity as it goes through examples of all the noun stem-classes, prepositions, pronouns, verbal classes and systems. It's a small paperback. I think I paid about 10 Euro for it when I bought it. Not expensive but definitely needed. It's not an explanatory text in terms of having notes explainging the info therein. It's a listing format going through the above mentioned grammatical forms, as "paradigms" implies. So you need a text book ideally to work through it and Stifter's is probably the best for the beginner who is home schooling.

It will really help you a lot.

if you do buy it, we can work through some of the stuff if you like (and if time allows for both of us) and if you are using the Old Irish Listserv thingy, then having the basis of Stifter's book will be enlightening in so many ways and will enable you to use such lists more easily - from being able to understand more of the content therein.

Anyway, I hope you're enjoying the day off and are snug and cosy at home. Over here it's more like April than February in terms of temperature and sunlight. Enjoy your online searching for potential buys!(actually just thinking...if you post a "wanted" advert in the Old Irish or Celtic Listservs then maybe you can get 2nd hand copies of the books there for less? Might be worth trying!

Beith
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Re: Sengoidelc: Old Irish for Beginners

Postby Kernos » 12 Feb 2008, 15:59

Thanks Beith,

It has turned into a disaster. It is below freezing, the power has been off since last night, so it is cold, cant cook.... And every 10 minutes or so you can hear a tree or branch crack and fall in the woods and hopefully not on an electric line.

One could ice skate on the road and with the hills, I fear I am stuck in here until it melts. Also hoping a tree doesnt fall on the house.

My batteries are almost all dead, so I dont know when I will be online again

Later.....
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Re: Sengoidelc: Old Irish for Beginners

Postby Beith » 12 Feb 2008, 17:27

oh goodness Kernos, sorry to read that and hear of the difficulties. I hope that you and all the folks affected by severe weather will be alright. Hopefully the cold will pass soon. I hope you can light fires and keep warm and have stocked up the house with food that doesn't need cooking first. I hope you have gas if not electricity.

I wish for sunshine for you and warmth to melt the snow. If I could send you some, I would.

take care of yourself, bendacht Dé fort ocus foraibh,

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