So you're a Druid eh?

[Deepblue]

...to be or not to be,that is the question. Entertain this notion if you will:

How is it that we move in this present world yet look to a previous one to find a sense of reality? Is it not the idea to move forward? And are most of us not toying with other Schools of thought or practices which invariably lead us to the same destination, whilst concurrently we practice our Druid skills (based on the words and ideas of others - for it is my conviction most of the Druid knowledge was never written down). In the times of the Druid, the student would sit for 20 years learning the basic skills of Druidry. How can we claim such a title in under 5?

My heart is also deeply involved in matters of the Earth, but the Earth also moves forward... and evolves. Clinging to the past as it were will bring only so much Light into this World. Ours is a World which has since changed, and we too can bring so much more into it. If we can but let go and step deeper into the Light of Truth and Knowledge. Hermes Trismegistus left us a legacy which, for those who have ears to hear will hear.

Let not your emotions grab you now and call you to rally against such words as these you read. For you merely defend a situation which so many of us find ourselves in. Are we not all seeking something of greater meaning in our lives. Or do we merely seek to entertain that notion?

[Kullervo]

How is it that we move in this present world yet look to a previous one to find a sense of reality? Is it not the idea to move forward?

A false dichotomy.

In the times of the Druid, the student would sit for 20 years learning the basic skills of Druidry. How can we claim such a title in under 5?

"In the times of the Druid," they didn't have free, compuslory education. So only Druids learned math, science, literature, and history, and all of that was a major part of a Druid's training. It wasn't 20 straight years of what we would think of as mystic esotericism. Going to school and learning is a major part of a modern Druid's training.

My heart is also deeply involved in matters of the Earth, but the Earth also moves forward... and evolves. Clinging to the past as it were will bring only so much Light into this World. Ours is a World which has since changed, and we too can bring so much more into it. If we can but let go and step deeper into the Light of Truth and Knowledge.

Again, you're dealing in an extremely false dichotomy here, and committing the same error that the modern, broken, consumerism-mad, "progress"-obsessed culture commits.

Hermes Trismegistus left us a legacy which, for those who have ears to hear will hear.

As did quite a few other mystics throughout the history of the world. But I thought you only wanted to look to the future? I'm not sure what you're gettign at here, other than to suggest that Druids should be paying more attention to Hermes Trimigestus, as if that goes without saying.

Let not your emotions grab you now and call you to rally against such words as these you read. For you merely defend a situation which so many of us find ourselves in. Are we not all seeking something of greater meaning in our lives. Or do we merely seek to entertain that notion?

You are saying, "if you don't agree with me, it's because you are being emotional and reactively defending the status quo," which is not necessarily true. You're poisoning the well.

And you go on to imply that only a person who shares your point of view (not that I'm clear of what that is--something about future-mindedness and Hermes Trimigestus and studying longer to become a Druid) is truly "seeking something of greater meaning" and anyone who disagrees is merely "seeking to entertain that notion." You're pre-emptively calling into question the motives of everyone who takes issue with what you say, which is particularly problematic for me, since I for one am not completely clear what the point is you are trying to get across anyway.

[wolf560]

How is it that we move in this present world yet look to a previous one to find a sense of reality? In the times of the Druid, the student would sit for 20 years learning the basic skills of Druidry. How can we claim such a title in under 5?

Yes, I am a Druid... as are many on this board...

But I'm a little confused 'Blue'.....

If someone says they don't care about looking into the past then why would it matter how long the Druids taught and why for that matter would they call themselves a Druid?

The Druids all but disappeared by 350 C.E. and EVERYTHING known about the Druids can all be slated as conjecture and scientific guesswork at best. To be "a Druid" means one has to study a little about them so one can understand Druidry at least a little.

The only way for someone to say that they are a Druid would be for them to try to emulate the Ancient Druids in some way. That however means that someone would have to care about how the Ancient Druids did things 2000(+) years ago.

If someone is not interested in History and the Ancient Druids, then to me they are nothing more than a New Age Pagan. They are free to do whatever they wish because they do not follow anything even remotely called Druidry.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" George Santayana

P.S. I have studied Druidry since 1984 mostly by spending a LOT of time in libraries. I completed my Masters degree in 2009 and completed my Druidic education in 2004. Although I did not call myself a "full Druid" until just recently, I do not care if someone else declares themselves to be one after they click three buttons on the internet one night.

Titles are important to some people, and they simply irritate others ...

[Deepblue]

Is not debate healthy? For it leads the mind to question even further certain motives...

Some might see my ramblings as not pertaining to what members of this board would like to read. But then, all that fellow readers would encounter is individuals circulating within the same pool. Only to jump when some new ingredient which seems foreign is added. I have much respect for people who follow the higher ways of harmony with Earth, people who contribute towards its balance and health. People who strive to be more than who they are, to see themselves in the mirror of life and claim their birthright. Call yourself what you like...it really doesn't matter.

I do not suggest any person must do anything...you are your own teacher. And this life is your's to live and create as you wish. But as the Path narrows so too will the motives. Til naught but the One true idea forms in the mind of the neophyte. Then all ideas become One, and the Lightbearer is recognised. Til that day, all things are but fleeting imaginings and illusion.

I strive to seperate illusion from truth...

[DJ Droood]

Til naught but the One true idea forms in the mind of the neophyte. Then all ideas become One, and the Lightbearer is recognised.

[wolf560]

Is not debate healthy? For it leads the mind to question even further certain motives... Then all ideas become One, and the Lightbearer is recognised.
I strive to seperate illusion from truth...

Blue... you misunderstand... I am not attacking you, merely questioning.
In order for a "Debate" to occur, both have to have a side they are discussing.
Your postings wandered left and right without a clear side to actually debate.

How is it that we move in this present world yet look to a previous one to find a sense of reality? In the times of the Druid, the student would sit for 20 years learning the basic skills of Druidry. How can we claim such a title in under 5?

To which I asked you

"If someone says they don't care about looking into the past then why would it matter how long the Druids taught and why for that matter would they call themselves a Druid?"

If you attempt to argue from both sides of the fence you merely find yourself straddling the prickly parts of the fence while others watch puzzled....

[Explorer]

DJ, you took the words right out of my mind.

[MiriamSPia]

"If organized religion is the opium of the masses, then disorganized religion is the marijuana of the lunatic fringe."
Kerry Thornley LOL, my Gawd, that's awesome!

I think blue seems like he just wants to chat more than having any hardcore point to make. I think that's okay, if its true.

Personally, I think it is good that a bunch of us are bothering to have some organizational structure to perpetuate a druidic tradition, even though we are painfully or amusedly aware that half of it is pure creation because of how much was 'lost'. The timing on when there were last druids: no offense, but the Irish did not lose their last 'druid university' until the 12th century, and the Isle of Iona did not get Christianized until about 560CE; so there has been a surviving tradition and a lot of work has been done to reconstruct and preserve the knowledge - perhaps not unlike we get with the preservation and restoration of artifacts. Remember, there was a time when it might literally take a century for a town to build a church; so that's 3 or 4 generations of people just to get that done while farming and all that. Right now I'm an Ovate. The same way that I value home schooling but realize it can be very uneven in terms of quality and what is studied, I think it is good that we have public standards and so much regulated education...for the same type of reason I think it is good that we have druid Orders and yet I admit, anyone who is particularly good at working with Nature and has insights and mysterious abilities can be called 'a druid'.

[Huathe]

Mark,

I very much enjoy your posts. Like you, I take my look at druidism very seriously and don't call myself a druid lightly. I study by going to the library, by reading online and by taking the New Order of Druids course. I also have a fair sized collection of books on Celtic folklore and Celtic History, as well as many on nature, like trees, rocks and minerals and astronomy. I am also involved in many nature studies and some activist activities. To me, being a druid should be a way of life. A druid should " walk the walk and talk the talk " But Mark, I don't think one's druidic training can ever be finished. We can always learn more.

Miriam,

Thanks for the enlightenment of knowledge on the druid schools making it well into the Common Era. The twelveth century is later than I thought. But I think they had some schools concerning bardic training into medieval times. That is from the 1300s into the 1500s. Neo-Druidism itself began roughly in the 1600s. In some ways druidism has always been around and has never died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bard

[Deepblue]

I think Miriam has closed in on my intention...

I would never consider undermining the good work and energy that people give to the earth and each other. Being a member of any organisation is fine. If it provides a sense of self and purpose that can only benefit. But it is also a good thing to look outside the window occassionally, and see the new growth. For change is good. And much like the earth works with rythym and cycles, shedding the old and embracing the new, we too can learn much the same, and adapt and grow accordingly.

Walking the spiritual Path (for is that not what the Druid essentially did) is much like learning to cook: you try different cooking methods and recipes, taking from each attempt a little more knowledge and experience. When eventually you have perfected being a cook, chances are you took the best from every encounter to allow you that ability. Lord Buddha did the same.

If my ramblings have shaken the floor a little then it is good. Because it strengthens ideas and motivates further questioning. Otherwise we just sit and watch the grass grow.

[Huathe]

I like those last set of comments you made, Deep Blue.

[Frog]

A serious question, deserving proper consideration. as I have an official notification from the Order I am able to answer that within the scope of OBOD, yes, I'm a Druid.

How is it that we move in this present world yet look to a previous one to find a sense of reality? Is it not the idea to move forward?

An interesting observation; the majority of religions and spiritual thought are not new; the newest that could *possibly* be listed here would be something like Scientology; most others have a basis on older, existing religous schools of thought.
I think that many (and yup, I'm one) are looking at other schools of thought; it could be argued that inbreeding is never any use for developing the species. It isn't polluting at all. Interestingly, I don't believe that this is a new concept either; looking at medicinal practices, methods of learning, writing etc has similarly evolved.

If someone is not interested in History and the Ancient Druids, then to me they are nothing more than a New Age Pagan. They are free to do whatever they wish because they do not follow anything even remotely called Druidry.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" George Santayana

I did take this one a little personally; whilst I do have a passing interest in the celtic myths it isn't something which I've spent much time researching and studying. There is a lot in the tales that we can learn from - but similarly there's a lot that is not appropriate in today's society.

[DJ Droood]

I did take this one a little personally; whilst I do have a passing interest in the celtic myths it isn't something which I've spent much time researching and studying. There is a lot in the tales that we can learn from - but similarly there's a lot that is not appropriate in today's society.

Here here..for me, druid spirituality is a living, experiential thing..not something book-bound, and trapped like a fly in amber. To each his/her own, I guess..you can choose to live your druidry or read about it.

[wolf560]

Please allow me to apologize if my words have offended for it was not my intent to do so.

I merely wondered if Blue considered himself a Druid or not since his post at first said that "Druids studied for 20 years how can one call themselves a Druid in 5? .. and then went on to say that many find themselves rooted in the past unnecessarily.

Frog, Miriam, and DJ,
Please allow me to explain my previous comments...

Regardless of what part of Druidry one applies themselves to, they are normally following what little we about the Druids. I myself am a believer in knowing as much as I can about the Ancient Druids and the people they interacted with. Some follow a purely Celtic following and still other restrain themselves to a purely Irish background.

Some cannot afford to begin or continue their education within an organization such as the OBOD (substitute any other paid course as needed) yet still have found a way to further their education in a place such as NOD (substitute as needed again).

Some choose not to educate themselves with either methods which is still fine (IMHO) as long as they are trying to follow the basic precepts of what the Ancient Druids were striving to do. Those basic guidelines were that the Druids considered themselves to be guardians of knowledge for at least their tribe if nothing else.

My comment was directed to those people who do not really fit into any of the above categories. I have run into people who feel that they "simply are a Druid" and that they do not need (nor are willing to try) to understand anything at all. They have no idea of what the Druids did, they do not care about what the Druids stood for and they have their own belief about "the spirituality of a Druid".

A lot of the Druidic idealogy we get from Roman and Christian eyes and words. Although the Irish University of Medicine (said to be the finest in the world) practiced "verses of Bardic tradition" until the 17th century, it was not in fact a Druid University. Yes Iona was around until the mid 6th century but it was in 60 CE that two Roman legions destroyed and sacked the island killing "an army of Celts and Druids with perhaps several thousand Druids. What is important to note about the event is that the Romans describe many hundreds of stones with unintelligible writing upon them that they burned and doused causing them to shatter. They then threw them all into the sea and salted the earth so that nothing would return to the island ever again. This was the Druid University that Caesar had referred to 100 years prior when he launched his ill fated invasion in 54 B.C.E.

The part of all of this that I take is that we have no true written accounts preserved for us written in the hands of a Druid from which to base much upon. Saint Patrick managed to convert a good portion of the branch of Druidry called the "Filidh" and even took as his personal caretaker two of these former Druid Filidh. I will spend more time after I return from vacation to research their names and roles specifically but I have a note here that they existed in some text I found.

My point overall is this;
Anyone can slap a title on and that may make them feel good but does not make them the King of England. It takes a little bit more to back up a title and the word "Druid" is no exception. I have no problem with someone who is actually studying any branch of Druidry calling themselves one, but I don't personally pay much attention to people who refuse to do anything remotely Druidic.

Rather than explain all of the things I have seen I will leave you all with the one person who called himself a Druid that brought this whole episode up...

A person I once knew bought a crystal geode, a pendulum, and started calling themselves a Druid. They sat in the New Age Pagan bookstore everyday greeting people calling themself the "Druid of the town". After a few weeks of this I heard about him and dropped by thinking I had finally ran into another Druid. He said "Blessed Be seeker of spirituality" and opened up a book on crystal power and started chanting. After 30 minutes talking to him I finally just asked him why he called himself a Druid....

His response was "I really liked the Druid of Shannara book and thought it was a nice thing to call myself..... I really hated being called a Witch..."

I walked away........

[wolf560]

.... second note.... (probably should have been first, sorry...)

Let me apologize if my words have offended anyone, that is not my intention..

[DJ Droood]

My point overall is this;
Anyone can slap a title on and that may make them feel good but does not make them the King of England. It takes a little bit more to back up a title and the word "Druid" is no exception. I have no problem with someone who is actually studying any branch of Druidry calling themselves one, but I don't personally pay much attention to people who refuse to do anything remotely Druidic.

I think I agree... it is also possible to have a huge book collection on druids, an encyclopedic knowledge of druid trivia, be enrolled in Manx lessons and call yourself Mac Giolla Phádraig ó Maolomhnaigh, and still not be much of a druid....or conversely, only own The Mists of Avalon and not know Cormac from CuCullain and still be a rockin' druid.

Druiding is doing. Labels are sometimes useful, but ultimately what you call yourself or what other's refuse to call you isn't of much importance, except to a fragile ego.

And wolf, I wouldn't be so concerned about insulting/upsetting people with your posts...I doubt if you have, but it is healthy to have different points of view and clashing opinions...people need to grow up and take responsibility for their own "feelings".

[wolf560]

Thanks DJ,

I guess I take the "Celtic Hospitality" thing to the nth degree....
To be both a "gracious host as well as a modest guest at times"...

I've seen too many boards torn apart by flame wars and instigators I suppose...

[DJ Droood]

Thanks DJ,

I guess I take the "Celtic Hospitality" thing to the nth degree....
To be both a "gracious host as well as a modest guest at times"...

I've seen too many boards torn apart by flame wars and instigators I suppose...

we are all guests here....paid-up guests, in some cases....and from my experience, boards usually erupt in flame wars when an emotionally insecure person is contradicted or proven wrong and resorts to the "my feelings are hurt" emotional manipulation gambit that worked so well with their mothers.... or stumbles into the wrong room...for instance, claiming that fairies are real in the Skeptical Druid area, then not understanding the..skepticism...that sort of thing. (or acting like a hard-headed skeptic in the "Fairies are Absolutely Real!" rooms. )

[wolf560]

... or stumbles into the wrong room...for instance, claiming that fairies are real in the Skeptical Druid area, then not understanding the..skepticism...

LOL..!!!
Yes, very true...

[DJ Droood]

... or stumbles into the wrong room...for instance, claiming that fairies are real in the Skeptical Druid area, then not understanding the..skepticism...

LOL..!!!
Yes, very true...

So perhaps (a part) of druidry is about personal responsibility? Being accountable and answerable for your actions....directing your energies towards the positive and healing..not blaming others or the gods for your screw ups (and accepting the hero's portion gracefully when you succeed)...dare I say, being "mature"?