The Druid Grove

by **pobble** » 04 Jun 2006, 21:59

Classical music has historically been a superb vehicle for expressing spirituality, although it has almost exclusively been used to express Christian spirituality.

In the Bardic gwersi somewhere, Philip refers to an opera by Tippett (I've forgotten its name right now) which makes use of the Taliesin story. This would seem to be music with a pagan spirituality, at least to some extent. Sadly I haven't heard this piece or seen it performed.

Does anyone else know of any examples of "classical" music (sorry I just find it difficult to lose those quote marks) with a pagan spiritual theme/expressiveness/intent?

I suppose you could almost put Beethoven's Pastoral symphony into this category in terms of its expression of a love of nature, but I'm not really sure.

by **Selene** » 04 Jun 2006, 22:17

Several. Mendelssohn's "Hebridean Overture" ("Fingal's Cave") and "Die erste Walpurgisnacht"; Stravinsky's "The Rite of Spring"; and Holst's "The Planets" (more about the Roman gods they're named for than a musical take on astronomy) come to mind immediately...a little thought might uncover more...

by **Miranda** » 04 Jun 2006, 22:29

YAY!! :yay: I love those pieces! I have a thing for this type of music. Oh, yeah, what about Vivaldi's Four Seasons'? Did I spell his name right?

by **Selene** » 05 Jun 2006, 00:12

I love it when I find someone else has already done the research for me... :) Check this out, folks: How Mysticism and the Landscape influenced English Classical Composers by Sue Aston (herself a violinist who "believes that other composers of the past/present parallel her spiritual connection between the landscape and its nature, the beauty surrounding it, and ultimately the music created and inspired because of it.") This is a fantastic piece of work, focusing on Arnold Bax, Elgar, Ralph Vaughan Williams, Holst, Granville Bantock, and George Butterworth.

Here is the author's "suggested listening" list:

Bantock ‘A Pagan Symphony’
‘A Celtic Symphony’
‘The Witch of Atlas’

Bax ‘The Garden of Fand’
‘Tintagel’
‘Morning Song – Maytime in Sussex’
‘November Woods’
‘In the Faery Hills’

Butterworth ‘Two English Idylls’
‘A Shropshire Lad’
‘The Banks of Green Willow’

Elgar ‘The Wand of Youth’
‘Enigma Variations’
‘Introduction and Allegro’ for strings
Violin Concerto
Violin Sonata
Second Symphony
Cello Concerto

Holst ‘Cotswold Symphony’
‘A Somerset Rhapsody’
‘The Planets’
‘Egdon Heath’

Vaughan Williams ‘In the Fen Country’
‘The Norfolk Rhapsody’
‘On Wenlock Edge’
‘Sea Symphony’
‘Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis’
‘The Lark Ascending’
‘Pastoral Symphony’
Symphony no. 9

by **pobble** » 05 Jun 2006, 19:15

Interesting. I'm not sure I can see any of those Elgar works as 'pagan' though. Some of the others, maybe. Holst's Planets suite is certainly a portrayal of astrological material, so I guess it is pagan. You could see it as a series of meditations on the qualities and psychological states associated with the planets. I don't know the other Holst works, I'm afraid. I've never heard anything by Bantock (not even heard of the composer I'm afraid) - but the titles sound intriguing. I wonder why Delius was missed off the list.

by **taranwanderer** » 06 Jun 2006, 20:37

Wagner operas are clearly based on pagan themes as are many of Richard Strauss' (Greek myths in his case). Stravinsky also (obviously Rite of Spring, but also Firebird as well as several lesser known works).

by **Kernos** » 08 Jun 2006, 14:43

I would add Mussorgsky's "Night on Bald Mountain" and the wonderful music video "Fantasia" which includes this, the Pastorale Symphony, The Sorcerer's Apprentice By Paul Duka and others I forget.

One must also mention Wagner's "Ringe Des Nibelungen" and I would include Mozart's "The Magic Flute" at least as a fantasy piece. But can the Queen of the Night be anything other than Pagan with the moon so prominent?

I am sure there are lot's more.

:bass:

by **Kernos** » 08 Jun 2006, 14:47

There are certainly tons of Celtic music, folk, popular and classical. Since most Celts over the last few centuries have been Catholic or COE, what Celtic music can really be considered Pagan. Some in the Folk category certainly, some of Enya comes to mind. But what of classical music?

:alto:

by **Kernos** » 08 Jun 2006, 16:08

Thinking of Berlioz, though much of his music is obviously Christain, I hear a definite Pagan influence.

The obvious Symphonie Fantastique, Op. 14 and especially it's Dream of a Witches' Sabbath (here is a midi: http://members.aol.com/Prestigiar/symfan_5.mid) with ghosts, witches and monsters, is certainly pagan even if from an Xtian POV,

Contrast the with the Lacrymosa from his Requiem and I hear Banshees and other Celtic spirits.

Then there is his Ballet of the Sylphs about air elementals.
Les Troyens about the Troy legend

His songs, Le chant des bretons, Op. 13 no 5 and Le jeune pâtre breton, Op. 13 no 4 are about Breton Celtic legends

:treble:

by **Moonweed** » 10 Jul 2006, 20:21

What about Sibelius. His music includes "The Bard " and "The Dryad. Tapiola is a tone poem about a dark forest. Much of hismusic seems to be all about nature

by **AndyO** » 10 Jul 2006, 23:17

Selene wrote:Check this out, folks: How Mysticism and the Landscape influenced English Classical Composers by Sue Aston (herself a violinist who "believes that other composers of the past/present parallel her spiritual connection between the landscape and its nature, the beauty surrounding it, and ultimately the music created and inspired because of it.")

Thanks for that link Selene - and she's down my neck of the woods too!

Hi Moonweed, recognise that avatar from TDN! - absolutely and beautifully with the Sibelius there

by **Kernos** » 11 Jul 2006, 15:28

Moonweed wrote:What about Sibelius. His music includes "The Bard " and "The Dryad. Tapiola is a tone poem about a dark forest. Much of hismusic seems to be all about nature

I love Sibelius, but am not familiar with these. Thanks for the heads up. Time to check with Limewire and the if I like to save up for a CD

:treble:

by **pobble** » 11 Jul 2006, 18:17

Moonweed wrote:What about Sibelius. His music includes "The Bard " and "The Dryad. Tapiola is a tone poem about a dark forest. Much of hismusic seems to be all about nature

There is also his early choral symphony (unnumbered) called the Kullervo Symphony based on themes from the Kalevala, which is a historical Finnish epic poem, with somewhat mythological content, I think. He was also inspired by the Kalevala in some of his other works.

by **Moonweed** » 11 Jul 2006, 19:53

Hi Andy. And yes don't fcorget LastFM too :grin:

Yes I forgot the Kullervo Symphony. Also the Lemminkainen (Sp?) Legends - which include the Swan of Tuonela. My favorites would be the totally contrasting symphonies 6 & 7 &Tapiola

by **Pelican** » 11 Jul 2006, 22:34

I am very glad to find this site. I love the music of Ralph Vaughan Williams particularly "To A Lark Ascending". Frederick Delius, George Butterworth, and Gerald Finzi. They have music that is overtly evocative of the natural world as well as music that I have found very useful in calming my spirit. I also like the music of Arvo Part and some of John Tavener. They are not Celtic in nature but I find them useful in helping me calm the soul and listen to the world on another level. My two dogs, an American Staffordshire Terrier named Louise and a Greyhound named Frida also respond to music and have been particularly fond of the "Golden Bowls" music of Karma Moffett. I am interested in the musical tastes of others. Thanks and blessings to you.

by **pobble** » 11 Jul 2006, 22:52

Glad to have you join us, Pelican!

And welcome also to AndyO and Moonweed! No less for being a little belated :-)

by **Pelican** » 11 Jul 2006, 23:25

I'm glad to be with all of you. I am excited about finding the Finnish titles. My current research interests include northern and eastern European music so any suggestions in this regard would be much appreciated. My partner and I bought a copy of the Kalevala during a trip last year to Thunder Bay, Ontario which has one of the largest Finnish diaspora communities in the world. So any other suggestions in this vein would be much appreciated. Blessings to you.

by **SidheAingeal** » 12 Jul 2006, 13:00

Ooh much thanks for the list Selene!

by **darakat** » 12 Jul 2006, 13:06

Thats a great list of classical music for pagans, thanks heaps!

by **pobble** » 12 Jul 2006, 21:26

Moonweed wrote:Hi Andy. And yes don't fcorget LastFM too :grin:

Yes I forgot the Kullervo Symphony. Also the Lemminkainen (Sp?) Legends - which include the Swan of Tuonela. My favorites would be the totally contrasting symphonies 6 & 7 &Tapiola

Yes, I like symphonies 6 and 7 but I don't really think they are specifically pagan. By the time of his later symphonies, Sibelius seems to have become more neo-classicist (is that quite the correct term?). Although there always sounds like there is an element of the deep dark cold forests of the far North in his music. I like his violin concerto too - the opening phrases are like hearing a magical spell. Nobody else comes even close :-)

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