Inaugurating the new, lovely subforum!

[Beith]

HI Donegal, I've no idea if they further alter the word to make a distinct sound...I wouldn't put it past 'em...they do strange things up north probably due to proximity to Bushmills whiskey distillery. I believe the word "hic!" is commonly inserted in many sentences. grin!

Beith

[Donegal]

HI Donegal, I've no idea if they further alter the word to make a distinct sound...I wouldn't put it past 'em...they do strange things up north probably due to proximity to Bushmills whiskey distillery. I believe the word "hic!" is commonly inserted in many sentences. grin!

Beith

     I guess Dun na nGall shall be annoyed at your laughing at Ulster.... But she obiously finds it very funny!  :-)

[wyeuro]

they do strange things up north  probably due to proximity to Bushmills whiskey distillery. I believe the word "hic!" is commonly inserted in many sentences. grin!

Is iontach é (hic) a bheith ag foghlaim rudaí spéisiúil mar sin (hic) faoi na daoine Eireanach. Agus focla nua (hic) freisin! Is maith liom (hic) fáil focla nua ag foghlaim. (hic) Tá mé ag goil ag cur an focal ‘hic’ ar mo liosta. Beidh cuma (hic) ar mo chuid Gaeilge cosúl le fíorduine Eireanach go luath!

How am I doing?  

wyverne (hic) /|\

[Donegal]

they do strange things up north  probably due to proximity to Bushmills whiskey distillery. I believe the word "hic!" is commonly inserted in many sentences. grin!

Is iontach é (hic) a bheith ag foghlaim rudaí spéisiúil mar sin (hic) faoi na daoine Eireanach. Agus focla nua (hic) freisin! Is maith liom (hic) fáil focla nua ag foghlaim. (hic) Tá mé ag goil ag cur an focal ‘hic’ ar mo liosta. Beidh cuma (hic) ar mo chuid Gaeilge cosúl le fíorduine Eireanach go luath!

How am I doing?  

wyverne (hic) /|\

    "Ulsterer" than the Ulstermen!!!  :-)

[Beith]

hic! ceart go leóir!

(ach is fearr duit bheith ag ól cuplá gloinne uisce beatha freisin!)

Beith

[wyeuro]

Go raibh hic maith agat , a Dhonegal!  

A Bheith, mh'anam gurb é - hic!!!

Slánta!

wyverne /|\

[Donegal]

a Dhonegal!  


wyverne /|\

    I know Dhonegal is the "vocative" of Donegal and therefore takes a Seimhiu, but as I am not very used to being addressed directly in Irish under that name, I am discovering "Dhonegal" for the first time!  :-)

[wyeuro]

Yeah, a Dhonegal,
I really love that sound too.  Took me a while to master it - if you could call it that - I still sometimes have trouble with it!  I've always had trouble rolling the r in romance languages, but rolling the d???!!!  -  though it seems to me it's really a g that gets rolled with both g and d. Took some getting used too, but it's part of the enchantment of the language!
wyverne /|\

[Beith]

Hi,

maybe this can help with the lenition sounds>

In old Irish and early middle Irish, the sound of a lenited D (dh) would have been more like the dull "th" sound (just like the "th" when you say "the" ....as opposed to a soft "th" like 'strength' or "thistle")

In modern Irish, as Wyverne notes above, the "dh" sound has fallen together with the lenited "g" (gh) sound, so that both sound the same...like "gh", but in former times were quite distinct.

In Old Irish, you wouldn't have seen a following 'h' (séimhiu) or a dot (punctum delens, 'buaillte') written over the g or d or a b, to indicate lenition, as these voiced consonants did not show lenition orthographically, though it certainly would have been pronounced.  The writing of the "h" after a consonant in the case of voiced consontants (d,b,g) and nasals like 'm' is a relatively recent convention (though one does occasionally see it in old scripts as such but not so commonly as over voiceless constants like c,p,t,g and over s and f)

Does that help or have I just confused you entirely?!

Beith (with a soft "th"!)

[Donegal]

Does that help or have I just confused you entirely?!

Beith (with a soft "th"!)

     Yep, you've confused me entirely!  :-) You've impressed me too, as you know so much about Irish linguistics, but I must say I didn't understand a thing.  Might be just me though.  I can be dull sometimes.    :wink: So would my name have been pronounced "Thonegal" in old Irish then?   Looks nice doesn't it?  :D I should consider changing my name to that, maybe...  :-)

[Beith]

Dia dhuit Donegal,

Actually you understood very well and apologies if I confused you. No I don't know lots about Irish linguistics but am dabbling!

Essentially yes, in an older form of Irish it would be like "Thún na nGall" (Dún na nGall rather than "Donegal" which is English)...you could also go for the alternative name of Donegal which is Tír Chonaill after the son of Niall of the nine Hostages. In which case the vocative would be "A Thir Chonaill".

In modern Irish the sound of the "th" is lost and so a lenited D sounds pretty much like a lenited G. (Lenition being the softening of a consonant either due to an initial mutation caused by the former ending of a preceding word; or due to a consonant within a word being sandwiched between vowels).

In the vocative case, the "A" caused lenition of a following consonant..in your case, the D of Dún na nGall..and would have originally sounded like a Th as in "the".

So yep! you got it.

Maith an cailín! agus bain taitneamh as do chuid staidéir i nGaeilge!

Beith

[Crow]

No I don't know lots about Irish linguistics but am dabbling!

Right, and Crow doesn't know anything about Pub Crawling either!

[Donegal]

Right, I hadn't realised Tir Chonaill was yet anoter version of Dun na nGall... although I'd heard that town name, obviously.  May I ask you Beith, what do you do for a living? Do you actually USE Irish at all, teach it maybe? I don't think you're dabbling at all, I thing you're excellent  :shake: !