The Druid Grove

by **Art** » 20 May 2006, 10:51

It has been suggested that we add a sub-forum for the Cornish language. Before we can consider such, we do need to know how much interest there is in Cornish and whether or not we have anyone on board with sufficient language skills in Cornish to offer guidance and support for such a sub-forum.

Thoughts?

by **DaRC** » 20 May 2006, 11:29

Hiya,
I would love a Cornish forum - I know little bits and a few phrases but would like to develop it more.

Cheers, Dave

by **AndyN** » 21 May 2006, 11:30

Gorhemmynnadow

My a dyb plen dadhel kernewek yw tybyans da.

Or to put it another way...

Greetings

I think a Cornish forum is a good idea.

I speak Cornish (though I'm getting a bit rusty) and am a Bard of the Cornish Gorseth.

Which version of Cornish do you favour? There are four reasonably distinct variants at present, though three are fairly close. I know Kernewk Kemmyn, but have some knowledge of Unified Cornish and rather less of Late Cornish. Cornish also has a small vocabulary compared to English and this can make life interesting - hence my invention of "plen dadhel" meaning place of discussion for "forum".

yn kres a'n neves

Andy N

by **AndyN** » 22 May 2006, 20:05

And to start the ball rolling, here are a few words in Cornish that some of you may like...

Andy N

To the East –
“With the blessing of the hawk of dawn soaring in the clear pure air, we call upon the powers of the East, spirits of air – Hail and Welcome!”

Gans bennath a'n hok bora ow nija y'n ayr kler pur, y helwyn ni orth nerthow a'n howldrevel, spyrysyon ayr - Hayl ha Wolkomm!

To the South –
“With the blessing of the great stag in the heat of the chase and the inner fire of the sun, we call upon the powers of the South, Spirits of Fire – Hail and Welcome!”

Gans bennath a'n karow bras y'n toemmder a'n helgh ha tan a-ji dhe'n howl, y helwyn ni orth nerthow a'n dheghow, spyrysyon dan - Hayl ha Wolkomm!

To the West – “With the blessing of the salmon of wisdom who dwells within the sacred waters of the pool, we call upon the powers of the West, Spirits of Water – Hail and Welcome!”

Gans bennath a'n eghek furneth neb a drig y'n dowrow sans a'n pol, y helwyn ni orth nerthow a'n howlsedhes, spyrysyon dhowr - Hayl ha Wolkomm!

To the North –
“With the blessing of the great bear of the starry heavens and the deep and fruitful earth, we call upon the powers of the North, Spirits of Earth – Hail and Welcome!”

Gans bennath ors bras a'n nevow sterennek ha'n dor down ha feyth, y helwyn ni orth nerthow gledh, spyrysyon dhor - Hayl ha Wolkomm!

“To Those Above and Those Below, and the Spirits of our Ancestors – Hail and Welcome!”

Orth a'n re na a-ugh ha'n re na a-woeles, ha spyrysyon agan hendasow - Hayl ha Wolkomm

(East)
In the name of the hawk of dawn and of the element of air, we thank the spirits of the East. Hail and Farewell!

Yn hanow a'n hok bora ha'n elvenn ayr, y aswonnyn gras dhe'n spyrysyon howldrevel. Hayl ha Farwel!

(South)
In the name of the great stag and of the element of fire, we thank the spirits of the South. Hail and Farewell!

Yn hanow a'n karow bras ha'n elvenn tan, y aswonnyn gras dhe'n spyrysyon dheghow. Hayl ha Farwel!

(West)
In the name of the salmon of wisdom and the element of water, we thank the spirits of the West. Hail and Farewell!

Yn hanow a'n eghek furneth, ha'n elvenn dowr, y aswonnyn gras dhe'n spyrysyon howlsedhes. Hayl ha Farwel!

(North)
In the name of the great bear of the starry heavens and of the element of earth, we thank the spirits of the North. Hail and Farewell!

Yn hanow ors bras a'n nevow sterennek ha'n elvenn dor, y aswonnyn gras dhe'n spyrysyon gledh. Hayl ha Farwel!

(Centre)
Those above, those below, and the spirits of our Ancestors we thank you also. Hail and Farewell!

An re na a-ugh, an re na a-woeles, ha spyrysyon agan hendasow, y aswonnyn gras dhewgh ynwedh. Hayl ha Farwel!

by **DaRC** » 25 May 2006, 17:08

Hi Andy,
thanks for these - however maybe having it in phonetic as well would help other readers who don't know how it should be pronounced.

Cheers, Dave.

P.S. My grandfather was a Cornish Bard - made it for services to the Cornish language but I have no idea which version - whether it was Unified or another one.

by **AndyN** » 25 May 2006, 19:21

Dave - the version of Cornish which would have been in use when your grandfather was made a Bard would probably have been Unified Cornish. The Gorseth still uses this form. There is an attempt at present to get an agreement on a common form, perhaps based on Revised Unified Cornish.

One thing to watch for is the way that the first letters of some words can change depending on their position in a sentence or phrase. For example, 'cat' in Cornish is 'kath', but 'the cat' is 'an gath' and 'my cat' is 'ow hath'.

Kernewek Kemmyn has a phonetic spelling system, which makes it easier to learn and use. The classic example of one of the draw-backs of the UC spellings is the word 'goth' which can mean pride, goose, mole, stream, or wild and which have different pronunciations. In KK these words are spelt, and pronounced differently, as 'goeth, 'goedh', godh, 'goeth' (yes, same as pride) and goedh (same as goose).

The pronunciation of KK is as follows

Consonants are pronounced as in English but the following should be noted:
dh the E. 'th' in 'with'
gh when final is like the Scottish 'ch' in 'loch' When between two vowels or in the groups 'Igh' and 'rgh' it is a strongly stressed 'h' as in the E. word 'aha!'. When this sound is doubled it is written ggh
hw is so written to preserve the influence of the 'h' as in E. 'when' emphatically spoken
th the E. 'th' in 'thin'. When doubled it is written tth

Vowels should be pronounced pure as follows:
a the vowel of E. 'ah' when long; when short, the 'a' of E. 'bat'
e the 'e' of E. 'bet'
eu the 'eu' as in French 'peur'
i the 'ee' in E. 'beet'
o when long the 'ou' in E. 'sought' and when short is as the 'o' in E.'got'
oe long, the 'oa' of E. 'boat'; short, the 'u' of E. 'cut'
ou the 'oo' of E. 'boot'
u the 'u' of French 'tu'
y the 'i' of E. 'bit'. Note that this is also a semi-vowel, the E. 'y' in 'yet'

Diphthongs

aw the 'ow' of E. 'how'
ay the 'y' of E. 'by'
ew the 'ew of Welsh 'tew"fat'
ey the 'el' of E. 'veil'
iw the 'ew' of E. 'dew' but narrower
ow a sound between the 'ow' of E. 'owe' and the 'aw' of E. 'awe'
oy the 'oy' of E. 'boy'
yw the 'ew' of E. 'flew'

You can practice with these things I said when I was the celebrant for a handfasting today.

Hayl spyrysyon hendas! Diskwedhewgh orthyn agas furneth may hyllyn ni konvedhes agan gwredhow.

Hail spirits of the ancestors. Show us your wisdom so that we can understand our roots.

Hayl spyrysyon a'n tir! Diskwedhewgh orthyn an nerth y'n tir ha dyskewgh dhyn kerdhes yn skav war an norvys.

Hail spirits of the land. Show us the power in the land and teach us to walk lightly on the earth.

Hayl Boekka! Ro kendon ahanan dha spyrys gwyls ha rydh may fyw ni yn heudh.

Hail Bucca. Lend us your wild and free spirit so that we may live joyfully.

Gwythysi Gernow, yth aswonnyn gras dhewgh ow junya agan kylgh. Re bia kres yntredhon, lemmyn ha bys vynytha. Hayl ha farwel.

Guardians of Cornwall, we thank you for joining our circle. May there be peace between us, now and forever. Hail and Farewell.

yn kres a'n neves

Andy N

by **Unikorn** » 27 May 2006, 10:54

I too support the creation of a Cornish forum. For too long has Kernewek been marginalised.

I would go with what Andy said, cos having met him - I know he knows what he is on about hahahahahahah

In my household we have a variety of languages that float about, including Japanese and Maori and English for me (smatterings of high school Japanese and everyday Maori), and Cornish for my fiancee who was brought up getting access to small amounts of his native tounge. I can now say hello, how are you and I love you

Bright blessings and I do so hope this forum will become possible - I know I will be active in it. I think it should - simply because unless and until it exists - we will never be able to grow it.

Thank you so much for sharing those translations Andy!

Kernow Bys Vyken!
Kirsti

by **wyeuro** » 31 May 2006, 05:33

Dydh da, pub den oll,

Drog yw genev nag en vy omma moy skon wosa govynn orth Art mar hyllir plen dadhel y'n par na. Ow apposyans war anow a'n tressa gradh (gans KDL) a wrugavy nans yw nebes dydhyow hag yma'n apposyans skrifys ow tos deg dydh alemma. My re beu ow studhya.
Pur dha yw genev dhe weles y vos ow hwarvos! Splann yw!

In Sowsnek (what I hope I said!!): Good day, everyone,
I'm sorry I wasn't here sooner after asking Art if a discussion group like this would be possible. I did my oral exam for the third grade (with Cornish by Mail) a few days ago and the written exam is coming up in 10 days. I have been studying. I'm very glad to see that it is happening. It's splendid!

Byghan kyn vo agan bagas lemmyn, my a wayt ev dhe devi ha mos ha bos nerth ha byw!

Small though our group may be now, I hope it will grow and become strong and vital!

wyverne /|\

by **Unikorn** » 06 Jun 2006, 13:56

I have been looking and looking - where is the Cornish subforum?? Please let us have it so we can see how it goes....I am very much looking forward to being able to honour this land of my ancestors and of my husband

edit - language....thats interesting as my thought process has just recently been about language and land and how these things are so important to us and our cultural identity and what happens to us when both are stolen from us..... sorry minor rant over

by **wyeuro** » 08 Jun 2006, 05:10

Gorhemmynadow,
Pyth yw agas tybyansow yn kever treylyans an ger 'blog?'

Ow 'blog' yw dhe http://romans-kernewek.blogspot.com/. My a assaya gorra 500-600 ger warnedho pub trevedh. Hwedhel rag fleghes 10-12 bloedh yw. An gwella fordh dhe dhyski yeth yw hy devnytha. Hemma ow gwella kernewek yn furv hwedhel. My a wayt nebden dhe omlowena y redya! |-)

Translation:

Greetings,
What are your thoughts about a translation of the word 'blog'?

My blog is at http://romans-kernewek.blogspot.com/. I try to put 500-600 words on it every time. It's a story for children aged 10-12 years. The best way to learn a language is to use it. This is my best Cornish in the form of a story. I hope somebody enjoys reading it! |-)

(I adore those little emotikons :-) )

wyverne /|\

by **AndyN** » 09 Jun 2006, 10:10

Blog? Martesen kovadh gwiasva?

I suppose since blog is short for weblog something like kovadh gwiasva, literally a website record would do. Kov gwias - web memory or recollection might be a reasonable shorter version. Or I suppse you could make a compound noun gwiasgovadh or gwiasgov. Still not as short as blog.

bennathow

Andy N

by **Fox** » 09 Jun 2006, 11:41

AndyN wrote:Blog? Martesen kovadh gwiasva?

I suppose since blog is short for weblog something like kovadh gwiasva, literally a website record would do. Kov gwias - web memory or recollection might be a reasonable shorter version. Or I suppse you could make a compound noun gwiasgovadh or gwiasgov. Still not as short as blog.

bennathow

Andy N

Most languages end up with borrowings from other languages. "Blog" could be borrowed into Cornish.

by **Kernos** » 09 Jun 2006, 16:46

Andy,

Welcome! I was thinking of you when this topic came up and was going to write to you about it. I am glad you found us here.

AndyN is one of the driving forces behind saving Cornish from extinction and protecting sacred sites in Cornwall. Kudos to him!

We would all love to learn more about Cornish myth, legends, fairy tales and music as well as language.

Is there an online Cornish-English dictionary of words and phrases? How does one say regards, cheers, etc to end a post in Cornish?

I would like to make a Cornish emoticon. What is a good Celtic/Pagan Symbol of Cornwall?

I have found 2 books, on I cant but my hands on the other is:

Manning-Sanders, Ruth. Peter and the Piskies - Cornish Folk and fairy tales, London : OUP, 1958.

Regards,

Kernos
:zen:

by **Selene** » 09 Jun 2006, 18:44

How about the Cornish Chough?

by **wyeuro** » 10 Jun 2006, 06:12

Meur ras, Andy ha Stormcrow,

My a breder ymons i owth assaya lettya geryow sowsnek dhe yntra an yeth. My a gar 'gwiasgovadh'. Y fia furv verr a wiasgovadh 'sgov', martesen, kepar dell dheu 'blog' dhiworth 'weblog' - wel, neppyth y'n par na...

I think they're trying to prevent English words getting into the language, Stormcrow. I like 'gwiasgovadh' (web-record). A short form sgov in parallel with blog from weblog - well, something like that...

Lemmyn, gwrys yw - ow apposyans tressa gradh! Y hwrug y wul myttinweyth. My re beu owth oberi ow studhya kernewek yn fen heb hedhi an mis po diw eus pasyes, dell hevel, ha lemmyn y fynnav omri dhe'n Boekka na rag mos ha bos arta ow honan

spyrys gwyls ha rydh

(dell leverydh, Andy), nebes seythunyow, bys y'n dalleth an peswara gradh!

Now, it's done - my third grade exam. I did it this morning. I have been working at studying Cornish flat out without a break for the past month or two, it seems, and now I want to hand myself over to that Bucca, in order to become again myself 'a spirit wild and free', as you put it, Andy, for a few weeks until the start of the fourth grade.

Splann yns dha lavarow rag kylgh, Andy. My a wra aga studhya rag aga devnydh ow honan - chanjys rag Ostrali heb mar!

Splendid are your sayings for the circle, Andy. I will study them to use for myself, changed for Australia, of course!

Eus furv arbennik dhe leverel 'pub den yw omma yw bennath'?

Is there a formula for 'every presence is a blessing'?

bennathow

wyverne /|\

by **AndyN** » 11 Jun 2006, 20:18

Rumours of my prowess are greatly exaggerated!

OK I started the Cornish Ancient Sites Protection Network and though I'm no longer its chairman I'm still doing some things to do with ancient sites locally, but I'm not the only one doing this sort of work by a very long way

I do like to use Cornish when I can, but to be honest I'm rather rusty when it comes to spontaneous conversation.

So - thanks for the kind words, but I don't think I've earned that high reputation.

How about 'lok oll yw bennath'

That would be a neat way of saying every presence is a blessing. If you want to emphasise that each one is a blessing then reverse it and say 'bennath yw lok oll'

yn kres a'n neves

Andy N

by **Unikorn** » 12 Jun 2006, 00:53

Wohoo!!!

by **wyeuro** » 12 Jun 2006, 06:09

Meur ras, AndyN.

Da yw genev an ger 'lok'! My a wra y dhevnydh.
I like (good is with me) the word 'lok' (for presence). I will use it.

I do like to use Cornish when I can, but to be honest I'm rather rusty when it comes to spontaneous conversation.

Henna yw an praga y feu dalleth an plen dadhel kernewek ma. :old:

Yma chons dhis praktisya skrifa an yeth. Drog vydh y gelli wosa spena termyn mar hir orth hy dyski. Ty a wra perthi kov an yeth ha ni orth hy devnyth warbarth omma. Drog ov vy mar hwrama hevel kepar ha mamm denvydh!

That's the reason this Cornish forum was started. There's a chance for you to practice writing the language. Sad would be to lose it after spending so much time learning it. You will remember the language as we use it together here. Sorry if I sound like somebody's mother!

bennath an loer leun
wyverne /|\

by **Donegal** » 12 Jun 2006, 13:20

Wow, thanks for that lovely board! :yay:

I don't have ANY cornish, but it IS lovely to see a board dedicated to it...

And who knows, I might learn Cornish sometime soon too, one never knows with me! :wink:

by **Dreamworld** » 19 Jun 2006, 02:39

great idea - it will stimulate interest in an endangered language. FREE KERNOW !!!!!! - drectly (=;

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