Noah's Ark

[Twyrch]

I'd like to explain from my own POV, how I've come to accept the flood as having happened... please no flames, this is just my opinion.

We see evidence in places like the Grand Canyon, where some form of great rush of water may have carved the thing out, and in places like the painted desert, that has fossilized fish in the rock formations, and with creatures like the Wolly Mammoth who was found preserved in a chunk of ice in the former soviet Union, with undigested food still in it's stomach. Scientists believed it had to be frozen instantly for that to happen... So I believe something had to have happened.

According to the Bible, the earth and heavens opened up to flood the earth. To me, that explains how the continents seem to have once fit together. It also explains the records of such long life, prior to the flood. I believe the earth once had an atmosphere of water, which blocked the harmful rays from the sun... kind of like living in a fish tank. The sky would have been green, most likely. The Bible also talks of never having rained before... of crops being watered by water coming from the earth...

I know, I'm using a lot of references from the Bible, but if we're going to discuss the myth, I want to put it in context.

I believe that it would have been possible for God to put the animals into hibernation until this was over. If not, the animals wouldn't have tolerated each other, been able to be fed or watered and their feces would have asphixiated everyone. LOL!

Christian scientists have maintained the ark was on Mount Ararat for a very long time. It's only until recently that they have found evidence of something up there, by taking samples of the wood structure and carbon dating it.

I believe that for so many different cultures to have a "flood story" that something had to have happened... is it verbatum from the Bible? Probably not... but I prefer to keep an open mind about things like this. Some things can't be explained scientifically where matters of ancient mythology are concerned.

Some things just have to either be believed by faith, or not believe by skepticism, but I would never tell someone they were insane to believe either way... it's all a matter of personal belief.

[chadly]

My personal opinion: There was/were flood(s), but it wasn't global. Lots of ancient cultures have flood stories, because those people happened to live near areas that could potentially be flooded.

Things like the Grand Canyon.... it is estimated that it is about 5 or 6 million years old (Source: http://www.nps.gov/grca/faqs.htm#old) carved by the Colorado River over millenia, if I remember correctly. The fossilized fish in the middle of the desert can be attributed to the fact that millions of years ago, those areas were in fact underwater, and plate tectonics has shifted the continents from various stages of 'supercontinents'(such as Pangaea) into what we see today. Those shifts brought land that was previously under water, above; and vice versa(Source http://www.visionlearning.com/library/module_viewer.php?mid=65). Plate tectonics is also the reason the continents look as if they at one time fit together - they did, as various stages of supercontinent. I believe throughout Earth's history, there have been 3 or 4 periods where all the continents were together as one supercontinent. I saw it on a documentary once, but can find an online source if anyone would like.

Also, is there any hard evidence that there was long life in the early days? Personally, I don't believe so, seeing as how I hold to the evolution view that we evolved from earlier primate species, along with monkeys and apes.

As for the Woolly Mammoth, it is very possible that there were times of sudden freezing during the ice age. Or perhaps the mammoth fell in some ice soon after it happened to be eating. The fact is, we just don't know.

I personally don't put much stock in 'Christian scientists'. Too many of them have an agenda to try to fit what they see in with what the Bible says, in my experience. Sure, many secular scientists probably have an agenda too, but they're more likely to be objective in their studies and are trying to test their findings against current scientific theory, rather than a subjective religious text.

Those are my views of it I'm a bit of a science geek, in case you can't tell :-P

[Wraithian]

Another theory I've heard was regarding massive, MASSIVE amounts of water stored under the earths surface, and suddenly there was a rupture due to plate movement or some such, sending all this water shooting into the air, raining for quite some time.

Kinda like fallout. You know, from a nuclear water balloon.

Regardless, I don't buy the "stuff-the-animals-in-the-big-box-and-they-will-all-live-together-in-harmony-with-no-need-for-water-or-food-as-long-as-they-are-on-board" BS.

To me, it's just another piece of literary garbage in that fictitious book (my opinion, of course) designed to whip out at others of different faiths, therefore promoting a sort of deific penis contest. "Oh yeah? Well, my god's so cool he can make it rain for over a year and teach a guy, not only how to build this big-ass boat, but how to lure 2 of every animal on board. So there!"

And yes, there are stories of massive floods in most every culture. Most (if not all) can be explained by looking at geologic evidence.

[Seeker]

Regardless, I don't buy the "stuff-the-animals-in-the-big-box-and-they-will-all-live-together-in-harmony-with-no-need-for-water-or-food-as-long-as-they-are-on-board" BS.

Don't hold back...tell us how you really feel, Wraith!

[Twyrch]

And this is why I try to steer clear of this section of the board...

[Florence]

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/noah's_ark.htm
Good & complete article on this topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[butterfly watcher]

Wraithian thank you i cant stop laughing.

[Lily]

With regards to the instantaneous freezing of the woolly mammoth and the food inside its stomach, Ötzi still had recognizable food in his stomach and he certainly was not antediluvian.

Stop believing in fairy tales.

[Twyrch]

Stop believing in fairy tales.

Wow... that's a little harsh, don't you think?

If a person wants to believe the ark was built in a hundred years and that God flooded the earth for 40 days and 40 nights... Or if they want to believe that the Great Flood froze some animals instantaneously.... how does that harm you or anyone else again?

I thought Druidry was about opening your mind to other posibilities and following your own path... not being told what to believe and how to think... That's what Mainstream Christianity is for...

Frankly, if I want to believe in "fairy tales", it's my own business. No one is forcing you or anyone else to believe along those lines. So with all due respect, please let me think for myself... thanks...

[chadly]

you know, technically you could say you believe in 'fairy tales' by just being a druid..... druids typically believe in some kind of deity, maybe faeries and elves, nature spirits, etc..... it's that whole 'practice what you preach thing'. It can be very annoying sometimes, no? :-P

[Twyrch]

you know, technically you could say you believe in 'fairy tales' by just being a druid..... druids typically believe in some kind of deity, maybe faeries and elves, nature spirits, etc..... it's that whole 'practice what you preach thing'. It can be very annoying sometimes, no? :-P

Very true... And thank you for your insights up above. I appreciate comments like that, which challenge my beliefs and make me think. As a druid, I always appreciate something which challenges my mind... I just don't appreciate people telling me how I should interpret what I've learned.

[Lady Nimue]

With all that being said...

IMO its wonderful to have food for thought, and fantasy. I think both lend to a well rounded and interesting outlook. Who is to judge what "reality" truely is?
Not I.

[chadly]

No problem Twyrch I'm the same way. I'm all for intellectual challenge, but someone *telling me* what I can and can't believe, automatically makes me want to rebel lol.

I agree, Nimue. During college I had a period of deep skepticism, and I didn't like it much. I felt like I was on a quest to disprove everything and take all the wonder out of the world, you know?

That being said, I *am* still a rational skeptic, but at the same time I'm not *itchy about it lol. I'm more open to possibilities.

[Florence]

Things that were "ridiculous", "exagerated","delusional" or "too imaginative" have proven to become true later!!!!!!!!!so in my opinion it's important to keep our minds open because no one has the last word in anything!!!
I also find contradictory being a druid and not believing in fairy tales or gods.........specially fairy tales which belong so intimately to celtic lore!!!!!!!!!
Twirch I agree with you : we must challenge our beliefs and knowledge from time to time.It's the only way to grow and evolve.My humble opinion anyway...but I don't like either to be told what to think or what to believe......in fact it's impossible!!!!!!!!you'll always believe what you can believe according to your own level of evolution......I also flee from the catholic church because it's dogmas suffocatted me!!!!!!!!!
and change is in the nature of things....our world and reality is always and perpetually changing!!!!Not to flow with events is to be dead inside....
Again my opinion....Love you all

[butterfly watcher]

Hi lady Nimue, found this link
http://www.crystalinks.com/floodstories.html The elements Earth, Water. Got me thinking now..............

[Florence]

http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/pan.htm
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_leyenda_hopi5.htm
The hopi indians from Arizona (USA) talk about the subsequent worlds that have existed. We are living in the fourth world that surged after the third one was destroyed by water
Their prophecies tell that this fourth world wil be destroyed by fire and they call this "The great purification" or "Purification day."

So they remember the deluge............of course the existence of the deluge doesn't prove that Noah's Ark story is true and that all happened that way. Maybe the Ark and the animals on board etc., are a symbolical way of telling that some humans and animals and plants were preserved or survived the deluge and that enabled the repopulation of the earth.
But the biblical story is taken from the sumerian epics of Gilgamesh and the heroe is called Up Napittim.This tale is previous to the Bible one. But as the israelites were prisoners of the sumerians it's logical to think they took it from them.
This is another possibillity but almost all ancient cultures remember or talk about the deluge. The mayas mention it in the Popol Vuh I think.L & B

[Lady Nimue]

Hi Chadley...I hear you. I think we ebb and flow as we continue our experience here on this plane....our opinions change, and we learn what is our "truth" in the present. That truth is subject to change, as are most things, and I think being flexible serves us. When we are rigid its perhaps more difficult for us to be a part of the "whole", and as Florence pointed out there have been many theories that have come to be proven. The Earth is not flat, for example.
Butterfly Watcher, thats a great link, thanks!

[chadly]

True true, Nimue. (I rhymed! )

Butterfly, I normally LOVE Crystalinks, but I'm a bit skeptical of that article..... in skimming it, I noticed that in the section talking about the Celts, it mentions Titans..... I thought Titans were solely a Greek/Roman being?

[butterfly watcher]

Hi Chadly, i was having the same problem with it then i found this, Celtic entry http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html#Celtic

[Florence]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/arque ... _flood.htm
Inca legends of the great flood.