cruit + cláirseach

[skh]

Hi,

I'm sorry if the question is a tad superficial, as I'm not actually learning Irish at the moment (I might someday, but oh, the time...)

However. I play the harp, and I know the term "cláirseach" for the instrument, and also came across "cruit".

Collins (the small pocket dictionary) translates cláirseach as "harp" and cruit as "small harp", but doesn't have phonetic transcriptions. From the little Irish I picked up I would guess at the pronunciation: "klarshach" (ch as in loch or as in common german) and -- "kruuch"? Hard k, rolled but short r, long oo with a tiny bit of e (/i/) at the end, ch as in challenge, but more t and only a bit of sh?

Apart from that, are both words used in present day colloquial Irish, and if yes, is there a difference in meaning? I seem to have read somewhere that historically cláirseach was the wire strung instrument and cruit something (harp or lyre) gut strung. Is there any evidence for this or did the author, which I don't remember anyway, make it up?

Any insight would be very much appreciated. It is not urgent in any way, just pure curiosity.

Go raibh maith agat,

/|\
Sonja

[ennys]

Cruit, is that the same as welsh crwth?


The crwth is an historical instrument, much like a lyre. It was an in-between of the harp and the violin, if I remember well, and could be plucked as well as bowed (please correct me if I am wrong)

In welsh the word evolved to mean 'violinlike' instruments, maybe in Irish it went into the other way, as a synonym for harp?

The geiradur mawr gives Crwth as a word for violin, but it is archaic.

I hop it is indeed related to Irish cruit, or else this is a very useless post

[Beith]

Hi Sonja,

Wow! I'm so impressed with your understanding and use of Irish terminology. I loved the 'go raibh maith agat' at the end of your mail - that's so nice!

You are exactly right in your pronunciation of Cláirseach as something in-between /klarshach/ and /klawir-shach/ (in both cases the -ach ending sounds like that of Bach or the ch in 'loch')

Re: Cruit - approximately 'krit' (rhymes with 'pit' but with a slight inflection in the vowels - sort of like trying to say "oo" and "it" together) and also 'kritch' (rhymes with stitch)

As to the differences, there are some theories on that based on different use of terminology in historical documents but I don't know if there's a full clarification of differences available. I think the jury may be still out on that. Both terms are used interchangeably today in Irish but as far as I recall, the Cláirseach is generally used in reference to the ancient Irish harp of Ireland and Scotland (in Scotland it's spelled Clársach and pronounced more broadly) which was wire-strung with brass, silver and gold strings as opposed to gut and latterly nylon strung "Celtic harps" nowadays but also the method of construction of the ancient Irish harp is a bit different in willow soundboard, forepillar and absence of levers.

"Cruit" is used widely also but whether there was a true historical distinction between both cruit and cláirseach, in terms of structural formation of the harp itself; or merely a colloquial use of interchangeable terms, I really don't know. I'm not sure who is working on that linguistically via analysis of harp references in historical documents, but let me refer you to the following who may have more information:

Historical Harp Society of Ireland: http://www.irishharp.org/about.htm
Simon Chadwick: http://www.earlygaelicharp.info
Ann Heymann: http://www.annheymann.com/gold.htm
There is also an Old Irish listserv online where you could post a message to ask for more information if anyone there may know of source references detailing any difference between them.

Reference material
Somewhere in either this forum or main Celtic Studies page, I posted a link to Prof Eugene O'Curry's "Manners and Customs of the Ancient Irish". The book is long out of print, published about 1864 if memory serves but there is an e-book online and that's to what I placed the link so have a look in this forum to see if it's still there. The book is in three volumes and there is some information about harps and terminology therein. However just to 'warn' you that to my knowledge, O'Curry's books are compiled from his series of lecture notes and so they do not read as 'fluidly' as a book would. ie. some repetition of pieces, typos, spelling errors, etc. But as a Celtic studies professor, he had significant interest and information on all forms of custom and art. I copy below an extract I took from the O'Curry's "manners & Customs".

Hope this is useful to you.

Best wishes for your playing of a beautiful, ancient and noble instrument.

Beith

From Manners & Customs of the Ancient Irish

LECTURE XXX. OF Music AND MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS IN ANCIENT

ERINN \ :'' . .. . . ''.' ' ' ; . 212233

(IX.) Or Music AND MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS. Antiquity of the
harp in Erinn. The first musical instrument mentioned in Gaedhelic
writings is the Cruit, or harp, of the Daghda, a chief and druid of
the Tuatha D Danann ; his curious invocation to his harp ; the three
musical feats played upon it ; examination of the names of this harp ;
the word Coir, forming part of the name of the Daghda's harp, came
down to modern times, as is shown by a poem of Keating on Tadgh
O'Coffey, his harper. The Daghda' 's invocation to his harp further
examined ; the three musical modes compared to the three seasons
of the year in ancient Egypt ; myth of the discovery of the lyre ; Dr.
Burney on the three musical modes of the Greeks ; the three Greek
modes represented by the Irish three feats ; conjectural completion
of the text of the Daghda's invocation ; what were the bellies and
pipes of the Daghda's harp ; ancient painting of a lyre at Portici,
with a pipe or flute for cross-bar, mentioned by Dr. Burney. Legend
of the origin of the three feats, or modes of harp playing, from the
Tain Bo Fraich ; meaning of the name Uaithne in this legend. No
mention of strings in the account of the Daghda's harp, but they are
mentioned in the tale of the Tain Bo Fraich. Legend of Find Mac
Cumhaill; Scathach and her magical harp; Scathach' s harp had
three strings ; no mention of music having been played at either of
the battles of the northern or southern Magh Tuireadh ; this proves
the antiquity of those accounts. The Daghda's harp was quadran-
gular; a Greek harp of the same form represented in the hand of a Gre-
cian Apollo at Rome ; example of an Irish quadrangular harp on the
Theca of an ancient missal. Dr. Ferguson on the antiquity and origin
of music in Erinn ; musical canon of the Welsh regulated by Irish
harpers about A.D. 1100 ; his account of the Theca above mentioned,
and of figures of the harp from ancient Irish monumental crosses
which resembled the old Egyptian one ; he thinks this resemblance
supports the Irish traditions; Irish MSS. little studied twenty years
ago, but since they have been ; from this examination the author
thinks the Firbolgs and Tuatha De" Danann had nothing to do with
Egypt, but that the Milesians had. Migration of the Tuatha D



xiv CONTENTS.

Danann from Greece; the author does not believe they went into
Scandinavia ; he believes their cities of Falias, Gorias, etc., were in
Germany ; they spoke German, according to the Book of Lecan.
The similarity of the harps on the monument of Orpheus at Petau in
Styria and on the Theca of the Stowe MS. may point to Murrhart as
the Murias of the Tuatha De~ Danann.
LECTURE XXXI. OF Music AND MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS IN ANCIENT

EBINN ....... 234256

(IX.) OF Music AND MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS (continued). Le-
gendary origin of the Harp according to the tale of Imtheacht na
Trcm Dhaimhe, or the " Adventures of the Great Bardic Company" ;
Seanchan's visit to Guaire ; interview of Marbhan, Guaire's brother,
with Seanchan ; Marbhan's legend of Cuil and Canodach Mhor and
the invention of the Harp ; his legend of the invention of verse ;
his legend concerning the Timpan ; the strand of Camas not identi-
fied. Signification of the word Cruit. The Irish Timpan was a
stringed instrument. Another etymology for Cruit ; Isidore not the
authority for this explanation. Reference to the Cruit in the early
history of the Milesians. Eimher and Ereamhon cast lots for a poet
and harper. Skill in music one of the gifts of the Eberian or
southern race of Erinn. Mention of the Cruit in the historical tale
of Orgain Dindrighe or the " destruction of Dindrigh". First oc-
currence of the word Ceis in this tale; it occurs again in connection
with the assembly of Drom Ceat, A.D. 573 ; Aidbsi or Corns Crondin
mentioned in connection with poems in praise of St. Colum Cille,
sung at this assembly ; meaning of the word Aidbsi ; the author
heard the Crondn or throat accompaniment to dirges ; origin of the
word "crone"; the Irish Aidbsi known in Scotland as Cepog ; the
word Cepog known in Ireland also, as shown by a poem on the
death of Athairne. The assembly of Drom Ceat continued ; Dalian
Forgailfs elegy on St. Colum Cille ; the word Ceis occurs in this
poem also ; Ceis here represents a part of the harp, as shown by a
scholium in Leabhar na h-Uidfire ; antiquity of the tale of the " De-
struction of Dindrigh" proved by this scholium ; the word Ceis
glossed in all ancient copies of the elegy on St. Colum Cille ; scho-
lium on the same poem in the MS. II. 2. 16. T.C.D.; gloss on the
poem in Liber Hymnorum ; parts of the harp surmised to have been
the Ceis, the Cobluighe or "sisters", and the Leithrind ; Leithrind
or half harmony, and Rind or full harmony; difficulty of determining
what Ceis was ; it was not a part of the harp ; summary of the
views of the commentators as" to the meaning of Ceis. Fourth re-
ference to the word Ceis in an ancient tale in Leabhar na h- Uidhre.
Fifth reference to Ceis in another ancient poem. Coir, another term
for harmony, synonymous with Ceis ; the author concludes that Ceis
meant either harmony, or the mode of playing with a bass. The
word Gles mentioned in the scholium in H. 2. 16. is still a living
word ; the Crann Gleasta mentioned in a poem of the eighteenth
century; this poem contains the names of the principal parts of the



CONTESTS. XV

harp; the names of the different classes of strings are only to be
found in the scholium in the Leabhar na h-Uidhre to the ', elegy on
St. Colum Cille.
LECTURE XXXII. OF Music AND MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS IN ANCIENT

ERINN . . u-.tf * .... 258278

(IX.) Music AND MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS (continued). Reference to
the different parts of a harp in a poem of the seventeenth century.
The number of strings not mentioned in references to harps, except
in two instances ; the first is in the tale of the lubar Mic Aingis or
the " Yew Tree of Mac Aingis"; the instrument mentioned in this
tale was not a Cruit, but a three stringed Timpan ; the second refer-
ence is to be found in the Book of Lecan; and the instrument is eight
stringed. The instrument called " Brian Boru's Harp" has thirty
strings. Reference to a many stringed harp in the seventeenth cen-
tury. Attention paid to the harp in the twelfth and thirteenth cen-
turies. Reference to the Timpan as late as the seventeenth century,
proving it to have been a stringed instrument. The Timpan was
distinguished from the Cruit or full harp. No very ancient harp
preserved. The harp in Trinity College, Dublin ; Dr. Petrie's account
of it ; summary of Dr. Petrie's conclusions. Dr. Petrie's serious
charge against the Chevalier O'Gorman. Some curious references
to harps belonging to O'Briens which the author has met with:
Mac Conmidhe's poem on Donnchadh Cairbreach O'Brien ; Mac Con-
midhe's poem on the harp of the same O'Brien ; the poem does not
explain how the harp went to Scotland. What became of this harp ?
Was it the harp presented by Henry the Eighth to the Earl of
Clanrickard ? Perhaps it suggested the harp-coinage, which was in
circulation in Henry the Eighth's time. The Chevalier O'Gorman
only mistook one Donogh O'Brien for another. There can be no
doubt that this harp did once belong to the Earl of Clanrickard. If
the harp was an O'Neill harp, how could its story have been invented
and published in the lifetime of those concerned ? Arthur O'Neill
may have played upon the harp. But it could not have been his ;
this harp is not an O'Neill, but an O'Brien one ; Dr. Petrie's antiqua-
rian difficulties : author's answer ; as to the monogram I. H. S. ; as
to the arms on the escutcheon. The assertion of Dr. Petrie, that the
sept of O'Neill is more illustrious than that of O'Brien, is incorrect.
LECTURE XXXIII. OF Music AND MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS IN

ANCIENT EHINN ...... 279 303

(IX.) Music AND MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS (continued). Donnchadh
Cairbreach O'Brien sent some prized jewel to Scotland some time be-
fore Mac Conmidhe's mission for DonnchadKs harp. The Four
Masters' account of the pursuit of Muireadhach O'Daly by O'Don-
nell ; O'Daly sues for peace in three poems, and is forgiven ; no copies
of these poems existing in Ireland ; two of them are at Oxford. The
Four Masters' account of O'Daly's banishment not accurate ; his
poems to Clanrickard and O'Brien give some particulars of his
flight. Poem of O'Daly to Morogh O'Brien, giving some account of



XVI CONTENTS.

the poet after his flight to Scotland. The poet Brian O'Higgins and
David Roche of Fermoy. O'Higgins writes a poem to him which is
in the Book of Fermoy ; this poem gives a somewhat different ac-
count of O'Daly's return from that of the Four Masters. O'Daly
was perhaps not allowed to leave Scotland without ransom ; what
was the jewel paid as this ransom ? The author believes that it was
the harp of O'Brien. This harp did not come back to Ireland
directly, and may have passed into the hands of Edward the First,
and have been given by Henry the Eighth to Clanrickard. The ar-
morial bearings and monogram not of the same age as the harp.
Objects of the author in the previous discussion. Poem on another
straying harp of an O'Brien, written in 1570 ; the O'Brien was Conor
Earl of Thomond ; the Four Masters' account of his submission to
Queen Elizabeth ; it was during his short absence that his harp
passed into strange hands; the harp in T.C.D. not this harp. Mr.
Latngan's harp. Owners of rare antiquities should place them for a
time in the museum of the R.I.A. Some notes on Irish harps by Dr.
Petrie. " He regrets the absence of any ancient harp"; " present in-
difference to Irish harps and music" ; " some ecclesiastical relics pre-
served" ; Dr. Petrie would have preferred the harp of St. Patrick or
St. Kevin ; " our bogs may yet give us an ancient harp"; Mr. Joy's ac-
count of such a harp found in the county Limerick ; according to
Dr. Petrie, this harp was at least 1,000 years old. What has be-
come of the harps of 1782 and 1792? A harp of 1509. "Brian
Bora's" harp is the oldest of those known ; the Dalway harp is next
in age ; the inscriptions on this harp imperfectly translated in Mr.
Joy's essay. Professor O'Curry's translation of them ; Mr. Joy's de-
scription of this harp. The harp of the Marquis of Kildare. Harps
of the eighteenth century: the one in the possession of Sir Hervey
Bruce ; the Castle Otway harp ; a harp formerly belonging to Mr.
Hehir of Limerick ; a Magennis harp seen by Dr. Petrie in 1832; the
harp in the possession of Sir G. Hodson ; the harp in the museum of
the R.I.A. purchased from Major Sirr ; the so-called harp of Carolan
in the museum of the R.I. A. The harps of the present century all
made by Egan ; one of them in Dr. Petrie's possession. Dr. Petrie's
opinion of the exertions of the Harp Society of Belfast. " The Irish
harp is dead for ever, but the music won't die". The harp in Scot-
land known as that of Mary Queen of Scots. Rev. Mr. Mac Lauch-
lan's " Book of the Dean of Lismore"; it contains three poems
ascribed to O'Daly or Muireadhach Albanach ; Mr. Mac Lauchlan's
note on this poet ; his description of one of the poems incorrect as re-
gards O'Daly ; Mr. Mac Lauchlan not aware that Muireadhach Alba-
nach was an Irishman. The author has collected all that he believes
authentic on the Cruit. The statements about ancient Irish music
and musical instruments of Walker and Bunting of no value ; these
writers did not know the Irish language ; the author regrets to have
to speak thus of the work of one who has rescued so much of our
music.

[skh]

Beith: yes, this is helpful! Thank you for the detailed explanation and links, and of course the pronunciation help.

Neeltje: crwth and cruit indeed look related. I had some dim memory that cruit did not always mean 'harp' but something else, hence my question about the word in modern Irish.

Thanks for enhancing my knowledge,

/|\
Sonja