Defamation of Religion Passes at U.N. Human Rights Council

[Druid Faqir]

This sort of thing makes me just want to disappear into a remote forest grove and not come back out. Honestly, the way the world is going.......

If you should ever undertake this endevour, would you let me join?
Pretty please with a cherry on top...

As for God not being offended, that's obvious! It is repetedly emphasised even in the Qur'an that God is not dependent on our worship OR lack thereof. But to afirm the contrary is politically expedient to some
Blessings!
/|\

[Corwen]

As for God not being offended, that's obvious! It is repetedly emphasised even in the Qur'an that God is not dependent on our worship OR lack thereof. But to afirm the contrary is politically expedient to some
Blessings!
/|\

Its a shame reading the koran seems a minority interest among Muslims. Being less reliant on the Hadith and Sira might improve Islam a little, though since the koran is also flawed, sexist, homophobic, anti semitic etc , just less so, so it could only be a superficial improvement.

Pretending a book so obviously written by a man (or men as elements of the koran seem to be from disparate sources) is the word of God is a dumb idea, yet strangely an oft repeated one.

As for that being obvious, perhaps we'd all be better served by you explaining that to your co-religionists than to us.

Theres a nice looking board here:
http://www.islamicboard.com/

[wilde]

This sort of thing makes me just want to disappear into a remote forest grove and not come back out. Honestly, the way the world is going.......

If you should ever undertake this endevour, would you let me join?
Pretty please with a cherry on top...

Sure! There's places for any like minded individuals who just can't stand to see society on a downwards spiral. And while we're there we can formulate an action plan...

[pangurban]

As for God not being offended, that's obvious!

Then please explain that to followers of Islam who declare holy war on authors, journalists and cartoonists, because they have committed so called blasphemy against Allah.

[Druid Faqir]

Peace!

As for that being obvious, perhaps we'd all be better served by you explaining that to your co-religionists than to us.

Correct...but this board has proven a VERRY useful tool for getting my ideas in order (a process which is going on as we speak ).

Sure! There's places for any like minded individuals who just can't stand to see society on a downwards spiral.

Among which...???
(I'm thinking of a nice Franciscan Friary somewhere where we could help aliviate the pain of our neighbour, but something tells me you had something else in mind).
Blessings!
/|\

[Kernos]

I think this article is primarily about the dangers of allowing religion to control political systems. Christianity has historically been as bad as Islam seems today when the pope was Ard Righ of all of Europe. Thanks to Luther and Henry VIII among others for starting to put him (the pope) in his proper place.

It says the resolution (NOT legislation) passed because there is a majority of Muslims on the council and they voted as a bloc. I don't know if this is true, but it is easily confirmed. And there is an implication that Muslim member's of the council have little choice in their vote or they would be condemned by the high priests of Islam (whatever they are called — please dont snow me with religious techno-babble, I mix up 'fatima' and 'fatwa' ) It also implies that particular Muslim members are there because they follow the Islamic party line. I get very suspicious when political types all start voting together.

I think it unfortunate that the majority of the world seems strongly religious (vis à vis spiritual)., but than humans will nearly always chose comfortable fantasy over stark reality, especially when brainwashing starts from birth. Personally, I think there are strong genetic forces that result in religion in human cultures.

What is absolutely clear to me, and I cannot be gainsaid about this, is that politics and religion must be absolutely separate in a free and mature society. Islam countries as a group have a lot of growing up to do. They are quite a few centuries, if not millenia behind Western societies. This is not to say Western societies do not have work to do in this area. I really fear the creeping, religious fascism in Europe as Muslim populations increase and they try to institute religious dogma into the law. We do not have this problem in the US yet, we still are fighting the Xtian theocrats.

A storm is coming.

[DJ Droood]

This is not to say Western societies do not have work to do in this area. I really fear the creeping, religious fascism in Europe as Muslim populations increase and they try to institute religious dogma into the law. We do not have this problem in the US yet, we still are fighting the Xtian theocrats.

A storm is coming.

Although the Christians in power in the West are ideological allies of the Muslim extremists, in many ways. The Danish cartoons were not widely banned because we were afraid to offend Muslims, but because Western leaders saw it as a useful precedent to censor satire/criticism/"insult" to their Jesus. If we can't insult "their" god, why should we be allowed to insult our own? Or any god? If Mohammad and Jesus are to be retained as useful tools as political oppression, they must remain sacrosanct.

[Ainevar]

Wilde....I wish to join you and Druid Faqir in the wilderness...or his monastery idea. Why must we fight I ask....the answer seem to be that humans are bent on destruction.....

[Cynewulf]

So when I mention that Mohammed married a six year old, but held off consumating the relationship until she was nine, and then add that this would define him as a paedophile in my culture.....am I defaming a religion?

(source: The Hadith, Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236)

Wow. Lets hope no fundamentalist Muslims read this thread. We would have a fatwā against Druidry issued … well … before you could say the word fatwā.

[DJ Droood]

So when I mention that Mohammed married a six year old, but held off consumating the relationship until she was nine, and then add that this would define him as a paedophile in my culture.....am I defaming a religion?

(source: The Hadith, Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236)

Wow. Lets hope no fundamentalist Muslims read this thread. We would have a fatwā against Druidry issued … well … before you could say the word fatwā.

Oh, I'm pretty sure that some fundamentalist Muslims are well aware of this thread and there are links running back to their message boards.

[Cynewulf]

Oh, I'm pretty sure that some fundamentalist Muslims are well aware of this thread and there are links running back to their message boards.

I can already see the headlines in the papers tomorrow, ‘Imam (who ever) has called upon the Muslim world to take up Mohammed’s old war against the Pagan Scourge!’

[Kernos]

Then they should enjoy this:

muhammad_andcronies.jpg (35.22 KiB) Viewed 896 times

[DJ Droood]

Oh, I'm pretty sure that some fundamentalist Muslims are well aware of this thread and there are links running back to their message boards.

I can already see the headlines in the papers tomorrow, ‘Imam (who ever) has called upon the Muslim world to take up Mohammed’s old war against the Pagan Scourge!’

I'm sure new-agey druids are pretty far down on the hit-list when there are still little girls who want to learn how to read.

[Druid Faqir]

Peace!

Oh, I'm pretty sure that some fundamentalist Muslims are well aware of this thread and there are links running back to their message boards.

Really??? Great! I've been waiting to tell them to their face how wrong they are, especially since telling the truth to a tyrant's face is among the greatest of Islamic virtues

On the other hand, they'd put me at the top of their fatwa (a place deserved by the "betrtayers of the Faith") and they'd label me a heretic...which, come to think of it, couldn't make me more proud of myself.
Blessings!
/|\

[cursuswalker]

So when I mention that Mohammed married a six year old, but held off consumating the relationship until she was nine, and then add that this would define him as a paedophile in my culture.....am I defaming a religion?

(source: The Hadith, Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236)

Wow. Lets hope no fundamentalist Muslims read this thread. We would have a fatwā against Druidry issued … well … before you could say the word fatwā.

This would be a Fatwa for quoting the Hadith and stating the modern legal implications of what it says in black and white?

In which case the only way out of it would be to state clearly that one approves of having sex with someone of that age. Or, of course, to ask if the person issuing the Fatwa did.

[cursuswalker]

So when I mention that Mohammed married a six year old, but held off consumating the relationship until she was nine, and then add that this would define him as a paedophile in my culture.....am I defaming a religion?

(source: The Hadith, Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236)

Wow. Lets hope no fundamentalist Muslims read this thread. We would have a fatwā against Druidry issued … well … before you could say the word fatwā.

This would be a Fatwa for quoting the Hadith and stating the modern legal implications of what it says in black and white?

In which case the only way out of it would be to state clearly that one approves of having sex with someone of that age. Or, of course, to ask if the person issuing the Fatwa did.

[Corwen]

Oh, I'm pretty sure that some fundamentalist Muslims are well aware of this thread and there are links running back to their message boards.

Really??? Great! I've been waiting to tell them to their face how wrong they are, especially since telling the truth to a tyrant's face is among the greatest of Islamic virtues

Be careful what you say. In line with Islam's famous tolerance and wisdom 'Apostasy' is punishable by death. Since you profess to be a Muslim this rule applies to you. How does it make you feel knowing that if you had a change of mind your fellow religionists would feel justified in killing you?

[pangurban]

Really??? Great! I've been waiting to tell them to their face how wrong they are, especially since telling the truth to a tyrant's face is among the greatest of Islamic virtues

And I suspect that tyrant to Islam is synonymous with infidel.

[skydove]

Druid Faquir,
I suspect you are trying very hard to gain understanding, I send you love and light and a big hug.

[Shaun Hayes]

Hi all

It seems to me that politics is the process, generally, of pursuing and maintaining a particular point of view or views, and doing ones best to ensure that that is maintained by any means one can get away with.

Religion is the maintenance of a particular point of view or views, and . . . . . . . etc

On their own both these systems are a right royal pain, but just about manageable, with the odd uprising here and there. However, when the Political politics and religious politics start to merge and become synonymous, as I believe we have been seeing in the USA and also UK increasingly, as well as many moslem nations since the seventies particularly - then we are on a road to a cultural war, as history has oft shown before. It is important that the voices of moderation speak out now, whilst they are able to !!!

Secular society allows for all beliefs (within the law) and this is what we need particularly in our political leaders.

Personally I do not believe that Druidry is the one true religion, nor do I believe it is the one true religion for me, nor do I really see it as a religion at all, though certain aspects of it are for me. I see it as a spiritual path that works well for me now, I hope it will continue to do so, however my path continues regardless, as I think all of ours do.

Examples of spiritual life are just that, examples. Prophets, christs, seers, channellers, saints, martyrs, shamen, wise ones etc etc etc are just people doing what they see (saw) as the right thing. Be inspired as you wish, but don't ever fight for them, and as for dying - well that's just as silly as placing the future of your faith in a piece of wood, or cloth, or a picture, or a cup or even a sword !!

My final point is that when religion and politics are conjoined then the sort of laws like the one referred to at the UN will be used to promote one particular view and to suppress all others, that is why it is a dangerous road to travel in an increasingly non-secular world, and why one particular religious/political view promoting it should be viewed with great suspicion.

Shaun.