The Art of Doomsaying

[treegod]

In many horrific ways! If you asked me this 20 years ago, I would have said "99 Luft Ballons!", or 9 years ago, I would have said "all the computers crashing at once", now I see Bird Flu and SARS, a big comet like "Lucifer's Hammer", a swift collapse of the global economy, or more probably a slow but steady retreat of the current colonial order..."End times" scenarios have always fired my imagination...I could go on and on. I am cheerfully pessimistic...I can't help it. Your life sounds lovely, and very modern and European and I hope the conditions for it continue for a long time and my gloomy scenarios keep proving worthless, just like Y2K did. ?

As a challenge for you, lets say all humans are open to create this "taoist utopia," how do you think it could be implemented and maintained peacefully without such catastrophes? What does the "slow but steady retreat of the current colonial order" look like?
I think it's not likely but it'd be interesting to see how it could happen.

and how can that be maintained?

it will just be where the pendulum is at any given moment. You can't maintain...you can just hang on!

Evolution has a habit of perpetually changing. So after you've been "knocked off" the pendulum what happens next? Extinction? Another round of globalising?
For me communication and travel are part of human nature so even if we try to create a localised humanity, we'd just keep retuning to the "nasty" habit of globalising.

I am up for all manner of modern indulgence!...jet travel, the internets, bananas...and I love "internationalism"...humanity is fascinating.

Ah, I quite understand. I think that there's a positive and negative side to everything. Globalisation or internationalism is a great opportunity for humanity as a whole, and yet there is a negative "shadow" side that needs to be resolves before we can make this opportunity something that benefits all of humanity and the living Earth.

[DJ Droood]

As a challenge for you, lets say all humans are open to create this "taoist utopia," how do you think it could be implemented and maintained peacefully without such catastrophes?

I don't think it could. A new sprout needs to grow out of compost. A dying tree is just a dying tree...not a utopia.

What does the "slow but steady retreat of the current colonial order" look like?

Somalian (and Indonesian and other) pirates, economies based on oil badly hurt...the major powers of the last century seem weakened...I'm not imaging a future scenario, but just reading the paper.

Evolution has a habit of perpetually changing. So after you've been "knocked off" the pendulum what happens next? Extinction? Another round of globalising?

Yes, i think if you fall off the pendulum, you are extinct...you are a T-rex...

[treegod]

As a challenge for you, lets say all humans are open to create this "taoist utopia," how do you think it could be implemented and maintained peacefully without such catastrophes?

I don't think it could. A new sprout needs to grow out of compost. A dying tree is just a dying tree...not a utopia.

Tell that to the bacteria lol!

What does the "slow but steady retreat of the current colonial order" look like?

Somalian (and Indonesian and other) pirates, economies based on oil badly hurt...the major powers of the last century seem weakened...I'm not imaging a future scenario, but just reading the paper.

What papers do you read? I read the same strories, but there's plenty of others that show humanity has a lot of positive potential as well.
I've been watching TV series and films recently that have really tried to convey positive messages. Your pessimistic attitude skipping over the positive stuff?

So in your view, humanity's development has bloomed, set seed and started to decay, and we should just let it. Fair enough analogy?
Out of curiosity, what do you live for? And what hinders you in your life or in the world from having a more positive view of the Earth and humanity?

In this regard I'm a gambling man. I'm gambling a part of my life to ensure that the future of humanity is a creative one and co-evolutive one. I believe that we have the chance to participate in a conscious evolution, and contributing that quality to the overall evolution of nature. If it can happen in my life, I don't believe other humans are so different that it isn't possible for others.

[DJ Droood]

So in your view, humanity's development has bloomed, set seed and started to decay, and we should just let it. Fair enough analogy?

Not "humanity", but certainly the current oil based-civilization/era in history.

Out of curiosity, what do you live for?

to post to the DHP.

And what hinders you in your life or in the world from having a more positive view of the Earth and humanity?

I think I have a very positive view of the Earth and humanity. Perhaps I just need a subscription to the Pollyanna Times, and a few books from Opra Winfrey's reading list to make me see the bright white light.

[Saule]

What papers do you read? I read the same stories, but there's plenty of others that show humanity has a lot of positive potential as well.

...

And what hinders you in your life or in the world from having a more positive view of the Earth and humanity?

...

I believe that we have the chance to participate in a conscious evolution, and contributing that quality to the overall evolution of nature. If it can happen in my life, I don't believe other humans are so different that it isn't possible for others.

I hadn't been following this topic but now that I'm all caught up I regret it.

I live on the other side of the country from DJ but, around here the "positive potential" stories don't really get much exposure. I'm happy for you Treegod that your news sources take the time to tell the good stories. Mine only bother if its a "slow news day".

What hinders the positive view of earth and humanity? My neighbours. So much ignorance and arrogance in one little house. With 5 bags of garbage a week 2 massive ( mean really massive) gas eating cars/trucks and a complete disregard for the world around them...I believe some people can be brought to the conscious evolution light, but not everyone. I unfortunately think its going to take a lot more then doomsaying to turn the tide of human consciousness. I hold out hope that I'm wrong but that gets harder every week.

That said I don't think it will be that bad for the survival of the species in the end. I don't think humans will be knocked off the pendulum. We are exceptionally good at holding on. It will swing, society will either figure it out or crumble. But either way it won't be the end, thats not how we work.

Some knowledge will be lost, but not all of it. We will have another "dark age" similar to that which followed the roman empire. With luck we will learn something for the next go round and maybe not screw it up again. I think that so long as this planet can support life at all humans aren't going anywhere (not that I'm entirely convinced we won't do something bad enough that life can't be supported). Its a cycle, with a period of several thousand years.

The risk of global extinction as a result of globalization is a bit of a moot point since as soon as the world goes very wrong globalization stops, ships won't sail, planes won't fly, and telecommunication will tumble. We will be isolated each on our own continents. Global warming isn't going to render the WHOLE world uninhabitable, just parts of it. People will attempt to migrate. Disease and famine will fix the over population and the world starts new.

Grim outlook yes but a very real possibility. Its like a race, will we figure it out in time? Or will natural disasters and the fall of civilization win? I think the shining light of societal survival is a fair bit behind in the race so far. Unfortunately I really don't think we will think to stick out hand out to slow our fall until we have started to tumble. Then its one of those graphs where one line is the damage done and a second line is the corrective actions. Where the lines cross is where society will end up. Selfishly I really hope to be gone before we tumble, realistically I expect it to happen before I retire.

[DJ Droood]

I live on the other side of the country from DJ but, around here the "positive potential" stories don't really get much exposure. I'm happy for you Treegod that your news sources take the time to tell the good stories. Mine only bother if its a "slow news day".

I think it would be an interesting experiment to not read/listen/watch news for a few months/year. I would find it very hard, as I am a news junkie (probably a major cause of my cheerfully pessimistic attitude), but I wonder how our view of the world would change?...why are some of my friends losing their jobs? Why have the Tamils blocked off downtown traffic for the last week? Why did March feel like April and April feels like February? Why was gas 3x more expensive last year at this time? What is this "war" they keep sending my kid's friend's dads off to? What social trends are at play that make my City Council think it is ok to ban Athiest bus ads?

I would probably have just as many worries if I ignored the media...just lots more questions. We are already globalized, like it or not, and media manipulation plays a huge role in keeping the sheeple moving in the same direction, so would ignoring it nake any difference?

[Saule]

I already don't watch much news as I got very tired of it. I do have more questions then before but you know its not so bad if you don't know every political detail or massive display of stupidity. Did they really ban the Atheist adds? I remember hearing about it but never saw the conclusions. Some news you can't avoid, even by avoiding the news. The lowering of the flags to half mast at the military building near my office is always an unfortunate news flash I find.

I accept that the media is an important part of our society, I just wish the media I did catch bothered to show me why the human race deserves to survive. Surely how one person helped the next is more important then the last smash and grab isn't it?

[DJ Droood]

Did they really ban the Atheist adds? I remember hearing about it but never saw the conclusions.

Yea, but the city lawyers quickly told council the city wasn't located in rural Kentucky and they would lose a court challenge, so they reversed it.

Surely how one person helped the next is more important then the last smash and grab isn't it?

Perhaps it is more important, but people helping each other should just be the default position..it would be sort of sad if it became "news"....

[treegod]

It's easy to get overwhelmed by the news. The bad news comes with no advice on how to resolve it, and often comes over as moaning for the sake of moaning. And the "good" news is often shallow and is just like a conveniant carpet to sweep the bad news under. The problem being that news is just commentary, telling us what's happening in the world but has nothing to do with what we should be doing in response.
The other problem is that the scale of the world's problems seem insurmountable to individuals, so we are just left staring helplessly at the news feeling utterly useless.

My hope doesn't come from the news, thankfully. At least I don't rely on it. My own life offers that hope, the changes in me and my life.
That's why I like it in places like these, people are looking to change themselves and perhaps even the world. Instead of going down well-worn paths people are striking out, looking for alternatives, to not be resigned to whatever doom is coming.

A few months ago I felt overwhelmed by the worlds problems (I'd been reading Battle For the Planet) and I just wasn't sure what I was doing. I think that's when I discovered the magic of "Think globally, act locally." It put things in perspective. My responsibility is not the whole world, just my part of it is. I can only handle what I can of it, no more. Looking it like that, I saw my local life as a platform to how to respond to the challenges of the world. Even if I can't respond to poverty, famine, drought, war etc directly, at least I can use myself and my life as a mirror to reflect the challenges of the world and resolve them there.

This thread gives me hope. That there are people that are responding in their own way, to help resolve world issues. That there are people I can work with. I'm not alone
If we pool our energy and focus together, who knows if the momentum may pick up and take a life of its own, creating a real difference in the world. It's places like this that these changes can happen if we're willing.