Avatar: The ultimate Druid movie

[Tyriell_Whisperwind]

before reading this i really wasnt interested in the film, i figured it was going to be another "the last samrai" where the hero gos from the side he knows to transition to the side hes cme to love. i think ill be picking this up on DVD thanks everyone!

[Twig]

I hadn't planned to see it, either, Tyriell. Not my cup of tea. But I did go see it, and I really loved it. It's a pretty damning depiction of "nation-building," and that's only one level by which to view it.

And my favorite line was something like, "Our Mother doesn't take sides. She only tries to keep a balance." If only people IRL could walk on the Earth, if only their feet felt what happens under their feet like the Na'vi did...

[treegod]

Just saw it today, mixed feelings. I wouldn’t call it a “Druid film” but I’d definately say there were druidic moments. And for that I’d recommend seeing it. But leaving the film I didn’t feel “druidic” (read peaceful and inspired). I would’ve cried at a few moments but didn’t trust the film to let me feel like that without exploding the next moment into aggression.

The message, if there is one: that humans will repeat the same mistakes and only aliens “neuro-wired” into their ecosystem (or humans that become those aliens) have hope. But I’m a Druid so I don’t actually believe that hehe. I can get other messages from the compost

If it had been a real Druid film, the conflictive situation wouldn’t have devolved into violence in order to solve the problem, instead some alternative way of doing things would have been found to reconcile the humans and Na’vi. But the humans leave with their tales between their legs with the only lesson being; to return with more marines! (I’d imagine).

But don’t let me spoil it for you. It’s worth a see, it really is. The philosophy of the Na’vi is quite something! Do I need to repeat what has already been said before?

[DJ Droood]

But don’t let me spoil it for you. It’s worth a see, it really is. The philosophy of the Na’vi is quite something!

Yes...not that James Cameron needs me shilling for him, but it is one of the few recent films worth seeing on a big screen rather than on your telly.

[Twig]

3-D has most definitely come a long way!

[Magrathea]

If it had been a real Druid film, the conflictive situation wouldn’t have devolved into violence in order to solve the problem, instead some alternative way of doing things would have been found to reconcile the humans and Na’vi. But the humans leave with their tales between their legs with the only lesson being; to return with more marines! (I’d imagine).

Yeah just like when Rome invaded Britain and the druids made a last stand at Anglesey

[treegod]

If it had been a real Druid film, the conflictive situation wouldn’t have devolved into violence in order to solve the problem, instead some alternative way of doing things would have been found to reconcile the humans and Na’vi. But the humans leave with their tales between their legs with the only lesson being; to return with more marines! (I’d imagine).

Yeah just like when Rome invaded Britain and the druids made a last stand at Anglesey

Point well made. Though I'm sure they didn't make regular practice of land stands, so maybe they didn't feel very "druidic" then. Anyway, they didn't win that day against the Romans and lost Anglesey. Perhaps the least druidic moment for Druids in history? We can only speculate.

I have a specific view of my Druidry which isn't always based in historical examples like that. Would I make a last stand? Probably, if I was desperate and all other options had failed. But I see it as the last option after failure. That's when I leave my own druidic principle behind in order to survive i.e. resolving conflicts peacfully and creatively without resorting to violence out the window.

IMO violence breeds violence. The Na'vi, having embraced the violence that the humans brought, haven't succefully returned themselves to peace and harmony, but have instead begun to cultivate within them the very violence that was trying to destroy them, if they hadn't already. It wasn't a story of triumph, it was a story of how things go terribly wrong when you have no other choice. It's this sort of reaction that only delays and eventually exacerbates the problems.

Any sequels, specifically in this view, would be a Na'vi civil war and a failure in their connection to the planet. They have "tasted blood," there's an uphill chance of going back now. Or it would be the corporation coming back with a bigger force of marines and wiping the Na'vi out.

My point is I didn't feel very druidic by the end of it, so don't see it as a "Druid film". Although there certainly were a few druidic moments throughout.

Here's my own take on Druids and their supposed peacekeeping qualities. Not inkeeping with historical reality, but more my own principles.
The difference between conflict and violence: http://thegroveofquotes.wordpress.com/2 ... -conflict/
A hypothetical view of how Druids could have created their system to create ecological and social balance: http://thegroveofquotes.wordpress.com/2 ... f-druidry/
And a realisation I had on war: http://thegroveofquotes.wordpress.com/2 ... trocities/

[johnpaul.riley]

There is a big sense here that many people were disappointed because the movie didn't live up to some type of perfect ideal, that it wasn't perfect, it was just a rehash of what has been done before.

Folks, if this world is going to change, if we are going to embrace true and lasting change, the type of change that will truly move our entire world back to balance, then release your attachment to perfection. Positive action, positive energy, positive steps forward. I'm dismayed by the negative energy I see projected here. Can we not speak of that which we respect, of that which is positive, of that which moves us all forward? Must we dwell on what we disrespect, on what we do not like, on how the movie is not perfect, on how the movie is flawed? Was there nothing good in this movie? Was it not a mighty journey of transformation this Marine went through? Think of it: A being trained to kill without remorse, gains an oppurtunity to visit his deepest love, and so be transformed into a being of high integrity, a being of love and wisdom.

BY ALL WE HOLD SACRED!!!!!

Did you not shake with power at such a transformation? Shake with profound hope to see and know that even we, members of an species gone insane, might find a way to live with integrity?

Was this not the tale of Taliesin, retold in another way? To transform from a being of ignorance, without realizing the consequences of his actions, to a being of supreme love, who acts from compassion. No, this movie was not perfect, but folks, I have never in all the years of my life found perfection, but one place, and one place only. In the very heart of my deepest love there lies perfection, there lies integrity, there lies the love and compassion flowing out from the divine mystery from which we all proceed, all life, all beings, all of us.

So, I ask with compassion and with deepest respect, please for those of you who do not view this movie as sacred, or those of you who have only criticism and disrespect in your hearts and minds for this film, be aware that you when manifest these thoughts, you wound those of us who view aspects of the film's message as sacred.

May all beings be blessed, may all beings prosper in the manner which is right and proper for each one.

[DJ Droood]

So, I ask with compassion and with deepest respect, please for those of you who do not view this movie as sacred, or those of you who have only criticism and disrespect in your hearts and minds for this film, be aware that you when manifest these thoughts, you wound those of us who view aspects of the film's message as sacred.

So, view James Cameron's latest film as sacred or shut up about it? I can't do that...it would damage my integrity to lavish holy praise on a 400 million dollar special effects circus (how many trees could he have planted for $400 million? How many starving people fed? How many clinics could he open? druidic ma thon.) when it doesn't deserve it and it would hurt my sense of freedom to express myself to shut up about it. Are my feelings not important? Luckily for you, however, I have pretty much said my bit about it, so to avoid damage, you can just skip over my posts on this topic.

[Aelfarh]

I liked the film very much...but sacred???

And since when to criticize a public art of entertainment is to be disrespectful???

[johnpaul.riley]

By no means, speak freely, as you saw, I did not tell you to shut up, and as you pointed out I do not have to read your posts, nor do you have to read mine. You are a free being, able to express yourself in any way you please, as am I. I simply pointed out that by stating disrespectful views, especially when they are one-sided, unbalanced, when they are nearly entirely disrespectful without any respectful views to balance it, it is wounding other beings. That is all I said. I did not say for anyone to shut up. Just be aware of the consequences of speaking unbalanced disrespect.

Please, I did not say the movie was perfect. There is much that could have been done differently, and it is worthy to talk of how it might have been done better or differently, constructive criticism is always called for. What wounds is the criticism which only tears down, only destroys, and does not attempt to build something positive, something good.

As to the environmental consequences of producing the movie, there are devastating environmental consequences to nearly every human institution on this planet. All I can do is take positive steps to correct these consequences, when I can, where I can. I can not suddenly between one moment and the next only take actions which have environmentally positive consequences. Change happens as a curve, not a straight line, and in a transition, there will not be perfection. And all is transition all the time. The best we can do is take positive actions, no matter the cost. Who knows? If enough us are committed to positive action, no matter the outcome, it is possible that the outcome might change.

Blessings to all beings, that all beings should prosper in the manner right and perfect for each one,
John-Paul Riley

[Aelfarh]

I simply pointed out that by stating disrespectful views, especially when they are one-sided, unbalanced, when they are nearly entirely disrespectful without any respectful views to balance it, it is wounding other beings. That is all I said. I did not say for anyone to shut up. Just be aware of the consequences of speaking unbalanced disrespect.

There's this weird idea that I found now and then that to make a criticism is to be disrespectful, I really don't agree with that stance. People are to be respected, not ideas, actions or works. That is just part of the political correctness and relativism that we are facing in this age.

[johnpaul.riley]

I do welcome constructive criticism, in my experience however, destructive criticism wounds and does not seem to build community or encourage positive action.

Blessings to all beings, that all beings should prosper in the manner right and perfect for each one.
-JPR

[DJ Droood]

I simply pointed out that by stating disrespectful views, especially when they are one-sided, unbalanced, when they are nearly entirely disrespectful without any respectful views to balance it, it is wounding other beings.

You seem to misunderstand my views. My views on the movie Avatar (and every other movie I review, I might add) are respectful of the art of filmmaking and the intelligence of the audience, expansive in their outlook, and balanced by an educated grounding in film theory and criticism. I simply corrected the mistakes of others who reviewed the film here. I have offered them, and you, an opportunity to see Avatar with a critical eye and not succumb to naïve wish thinking and internal fantasy projection. I think I have performed a healing service for the community in this thread.

If you are interested in some of the themes clumsily pawed at by Cameron in this film, I would suggest renting Little Big Man by Arthur Penn. It artfully looks at the conflict between imperialist American forces and indigenous cultures, from the perspective of an outsider who becomes one with them. Now that is a movie worth praising as sacred.

[pangurban]

I have not seen Avatar yet But I must say that I cannot get my head round the fact that a film that cost millions to make, with the object of making many more millions being called sacred. People may see a message in the film but that does not mean the message was there or even intended.

[pangurban]

.it would damage my integrity to lavish holy praise on a 400 million dollar special effects circus (how many trees could he have planted for $400 million? How many starving people fed? How many clinics could he open?

I think that must one of the first times I am in complete agreement with you

[Aelfarh]

I have not seen Avatar yet But I must say that I cannot get my head round the fact that a film that cost millions to make, with the object of making many more millions being called sacred. People may see a message in the film but that does not mean the message was there or even intended.

What is up with the stars today?, I also am in complete agreement with that

[DJ Droood]

.it would damage my integrity to lavish holy praise on a 400 million dollar special effects circus (how many trees could he have planted for $400 million? How many starving people fed? How many clinics could he open?

I think that must one of the first times I am in complete agreement with you

Then congratulations for being completely right for the first time!

[lkhedley]

So, I ask with compassion and with deepest respect, please for those of you who do not view this movie as sacred, or those of you who have only criticism and disrespect in your hearts and minds for this film, be aware that you when manifest these thoughts, you wound those of us who view aspects of the film's message as sacred.

So, view James Cameron's latest film as sacred or shut up about it? I can't do that...it would damage my integrity to lavish holy praise on a 400 million dollar special effects circus (how many trees could he have planted for $400 million? How many starving people fed? How many clinics could he open? druidic ma thon.) when it doesn't deserve it and it would hurt my sense of freedom to express myself to shut up about it. Are my feelings not important? Luckily for you, however, I have pretty much said my bit about it, so to avoid damage, you can just skip over my posts on this topic.

This is, in fact exactly my view of political correctness. Do not speak truth or opinion if it hurts someone's feelings. I fully agree with not just your right to speak on problems with this or any subject, but with the need to do so. I make that support conditional upon nothing but free speach and would not. I just thought I would drop this in because it seemed such a perfect illustration of how I view PC.

Hoping this is taken as an illustration and not a barb.
listening to the rain
at Shadows End

Lyle

[DJ Droood]

This is, in fact exactly my view of political correctness. Do not speak truth or opinion if it hurts someone's feelings. I fully agree with not just your right to speak on problems with this or any subject, but with the need to do so. I make that support conditional upon nothing but free speach and would not. I just thought I would drop this in because it seemed such a perfect illustration of how I view PC.

No. it is good to hear someone actually define what "political correctness" means to them. I agree with your usage. I often hear it used by people on the "right" side of the spectrum when they are annoyed with a more moderate or mainstream stance like accepting gay marriage. They will accuse the mainstream of being "politically correct"...implying that most people actually support their radical view, but are too timid to speak up. I don't like it much as a phrase...not precise enough. One could "hide" one's real motives behind its usage.