Druids in America?

[ravenfolk]

Hello All,
There were a goodly number of immigrants to America. I am curious if there is any historical data or theories of Druids in America? Has there ever been an acheological evidence found?

ravnefolk

[FoxPhantom]

Hello All,
There were a goodly number of immigrants to America. I am curious if there is any historical data or theories of Druids in America? Has there ever been an acheological evidence found?

ravnefolk

I don't know if there is any, but I think so, since druidism has been in ireland for many many years. Yet native Americans, are like druids in there own way. since they have lived in harmony with the earth before. (this is also IMO since they have also tried there best to be with the earth, bringing up creativity.) Of coarse it still might be possible though.

[ravenfolk]

I agree. I believe it is very likely that druidism in some form was brought to America. My great grand mother was Welsh. Most of my family hails from the Appalachain region. Most of this region was settled by Scot-Irish, Welsh and German immigrants. Appalachain folk are an interesting group of people. Many of the sayings and beliefs in my family can be traced back to our mountain kin.

I was just throwing the subject out here in hopes of maybe hearing of some actual historical evidence or recorded accounts of its existence in America. I understand the connection with Native Americans. I appreciate their knowledge and wisdom of the land that we live on. I do believe though that my connection to earth is through my ancestors and I would like to learn more about them. It may sound odd to some people but I call it my spiritual DNA.

ravenfolk

[John T. Folden]

I think it's quite likely that certain Celtic beliefs and practices may have been brought over by those that hail from a Celtic culture and that may possibly have been descendants, however, I doubt there's anything to support the idea - to any sensible degree - that the original Druids came to America.

Now, if we're talking about revivalist Druids of the 18th and 19th century then it's a whole different story.

[Nightfalls]

It may sound odd to some people but I call it my spiritual DNA.

I have got a bit of that too One of my Great Great Grandparents was American Indian. But yes I am pretty sure some form of Druidry made its way to America, since we are here now.

[Blaiddwen]

There are legends of a tribe of welsh speaking "Indians" who eventually became known as the Mandan tribe, the other native tribes called them "The Moon Eyed People". Evidence such as cairns and coracles have been found, and one "british style" hill fort was radio carbon dated to the 6th century. These people are said to have lived, primarily, in the Ohio River Valley, though other evidence has been found in Tennesee. Native American legend says that these people lived on a Sacred Hunting ground, which is now called The Falls of The Ohio, and it was taboo for any to claim it or live on it. The native tribes got together and persued these Moon Eyed People, and eventually slaughtered them.
Most of the people who follow the legends tend to subscribe to the theory that these people arrived in the 12th century, but that would'nt account for the 6th century hill fort, but both camps have merit to their arguements. The welsh name Madoc comes up whenever the legends are discussed, the 12th century folk contend that the warrior Prince Madoc and his retinue are the first welshmen to come here, are they correct then? If we look to the 6th century theory (my personal favorite), there lived a celtic Saint "Maedoc of the Ferns", who is said to have traveled extensively in his lifetime. Maedoc was a friend of Saint Patrick, which places his life during the 6th century.
No matter which century, 12th or 6th, we subscribe to, we cannot say if Druids were among the travelers, but we cannot say that they did'nt either. One last item, I found an old newspaper article in a local library which told of an archaeological find, not far from here, at a place called Lawrenceburg Crossing. The article said that a massive burial had been found, that the bones were much larger than those found at other burial sites, and testing of the bones dated them to the "Aztec" period.

[DaRC]

well Tim Severin, a modern adventurer of history, has proved that it would have been possible for the early medieval Irish (stored in the to travel to America. Whether they did is another question entirely...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan
http://www.timseverin.net/books_brendan_voyage.html

[Merlyn]

A few places to wander and discover were the druids are in America.
They brought the old ways with them and settled in places like "The Welsh Valley" PA, and "Owings Mills" MD. and in Canada.
http://www.druidcircle.org/nod/index.ph ... Itemid=200
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~vtwag ... Welsh.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owings_Mills,_Maryland
http://www.wngga.org/wngga/wngga_awo.html#US
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/b.gardner/tre ... ml#history

For what is going on in Welsh America;
http://www.ninnau.com/

[Art]

I suppose if the question is whether or not members of a social caste known as Druids traipsed across the Atlantic to the New World the answer would have to be “Who knows?” coupled with a resounding “Probably not.”
If on the other hand the question is whether or not people from those parts of Europe we now call the Celtic countries visited and later settled in these parts, the answer is yes.
It is highly likely that fishing folk touched on the shores of North America many times prior to Columbus and there is some evidence of intercourse between New England NA tribes and Welsh fishermen as early as 1480. (http://www.amazon.com/1491-Revelations- ... 140004006X) Those folks however came without the political backing and media darling potential of Columbus and his entourage. In other words, ‘tis possible that when Bryn from Aberswythe got home and told his wife “You’ll never believe where we’ve been!” she didn’t and told him to shut up and start salting the cod!
It is true however that a series of events from peasant stock sold into slavery to forced migrations to voluntary migrations placed quite a few Welsh, Irish, Scots and poor English in the Americas. The settlement of the mountainous regions of the east by protestant Ulster Scots in successive waves between 1717 and 1775 is well documented.
The chances of some members of the social caste known as Druids visiting America is extremely slim for many reasons. The history of the Celtic peoples in the New World however is absolutely fascinating, filled with heartbreak and accomplishment, and is complete with the notion that there are probably more people living in the US with Celtic ancestry today than in Britain and Ireland combined.

[ravenfolk]

It is great to see others interested in this topic. I had not heard of the legend of the Welsh speaking Native Amercians...intriguing! Thanks for all the links you all have shared.

The history of the Celtic peoples in the New World however is absolutely fascinating, filled with heartbreak and accomplishment, and is complete with the notion that there are probably more people living in the US with Celtic ancestry today than in Britain and Ireland combined.

Art,
I absolutely agree, it is a fascinating subject. When you mentioned the indentured servants being shipped to America it hit a cord with me. One of my ancestors was sent here on a prison ship and indentured somewhere in Williamsburg, VA. Everytime I view the documents I wonder what it must of felt like to be sent from your home to a strange place to serve someone you have probably never met. Thanks for the book suggestion, it looks like one I would be interested in reading.

I suppose the possibilities are endless, and the facts are elusive when it comes to the Druids in America. One thing is for certain many of their kin came here along with their spiritual and cultural beliefs which have help shape the history of America.

ravenfolk

[Fiach]

I live in North Wales Pennsylvania. Although there are not any blatant shrines around, there are numerous nature preserves and parks with very noticeably Welsh names. Gwynedd valley is the town right next to me, and that is a beautiful little town.

I have never heard of this area being called the welsh valley although it makes so much sense!
I think I may start to do a little research and if I find anything I'll let ya know.

Fiach

[Blaiddwen]

There are many, many tales to be told, often heartbreaking ones like those of servants. My maternal Great Grandmother came to the US from Ireland, with her family, as a young girl. Soon, her father died of illness that was contracted on the ship, her mother had to take work as domestic help, the children were given to the Church. Great Grandma ended up on the Orphan Trains at the age of 4 years, she was adopted by a family of Irish farmers in the mid-west and led a very happy life.
She could spot a 4 leaved clover from 20 paces, and she told her children that she came from Cuallann, which is the old name for the place. How does a 4 year old girl remember the Gaelic name of her homeland for so many years? I guess that some things have never ceased to be, only the names have changed.

[ravenfolk]

I live in North Wales Pennsylvania. Although there are not any blatant shrines around, there are numerous nature preserves and parks with very noticeably Welsh names. Gwynedd valley is the town right next to me, and that is a beautiful little town.

I have never heard of this area being called the welsh valley although it makes so much sense!
I think I may start to do a little research and if I find anything I'll let ya know.

Fiach

Flach, my husband is from PA. I would love to hear what you come across in you search.

There are many, many tales to be told, often heartbreaking ones like those of servants. My maternal Great Grandmother came to the US from Ireland, with her family, as a young girl. Soon, her father died of illness that was contracted on the ship, her mother had to take work as domestic help, the children were given to the Church. Great Grandma ended up on the Orphan Trains at the age of 4 years, she was adopted by a family of Irish farmers in the mid-west and led a very happy life.
She could spot a 4 leaved clover from 20 paces, and she told her children that she came from Cuallann, which is the old name for the place. How does a 4 year old girl remember the Gaelic name of her homeland for so many years? I guess that some things have never ceased to be, only the names have changed.

Blaiddwen, what a heartfelt story. I let out a little chuckle when you mentioned the 4 leaved clover. My grandmother was the same way. We would come out of the house and find her stooped over a clover bed running her hand over the leaves. It seemed as though she always found that lucky clover.

ravenfolk

[Corwen]

It cuts both ways, during the little ice age of the 17th century Inuit people in kayaks landed in Scottish ports and on Orkney. I'm sure that wasn't the first time this happened.

[ravenfolk]

It cuts both ways, during the little ice age of the 17th century Inuit people in kayaks landed in Scottish ports and on Orkney. I'm sure that wasn't the first time this happened.

Isn't it neat...It seems that there are more and more incidents of these voyages being discussed nowadays. I thought it was interesting that we have been chatting about these topics for the past couple of days and just last night on the History Channel, there was a documentary on who really discovered North America. I knew of some of the explorers they had mentioned and I learned of a few new ones as well. They even mentioned the Welsh Native American legend. It was an interesting show and timely as well.

ravenfolk

[Merlyn]

http://www.data-wales.co.uk/ivanhild.htm
http://www.data-wales.co.uk/plantations.htm
http://welshpatriot.blogspot.com/2007/0 ... s-too.html
http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/insrv/librarie ... avery.html
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nyuny ... age21.html
The list could go on & on, and the "far flung" tales as well.
One thing for sure, the way of the Celts often came to another shore, America, with the quakers, Catholics and all.
The adopted theology they fled never really wiped out the old ways, often preserved by being "quaker" and evading the social implications.

I live near a road called "piggot bottom", as Welsh as can be.
Live in a house built by a Welshman, back in the late 70s

The Drui of old may have been the keepers of the Celtic ways, but then, it was the Celts who made the ways.
We have a lot of stuff to dig through in history here, and once you do, especially in PA, MD, VA you will then see it all around you!

Merlyn

[Blaiddwen]

diasporia ?

[ravenfolk]

Thanks for the links Merlyn! I am still searching around at different sites. Have you all heard of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America's_Stonehenge
Interesting but...

diasporia ?

Blaiddwen, interesting, care to map out the possibilities for us ?

ravenfolk

[Blaiddwen]

Towns in Kentucky, Bardstown, Somerset, Owenton, Mossville, Rowan County, Vine Grove...........................
Far flung as it seems, the legends of the "Moon eyed People" were enough to spark the interest of Iolo Morganwg who came to the US, at one point, to check into the matter. Did'nt Gerald Gardner end up in Tennesee at some point?

[Art]

John Thomas Evans (April 1770 - May 1799) was a Welsh explorer who produced an early map of the Missouri River.

"John Evans was born in Waunfawr, near Caernarfon. In the early 1790s there was an upsurge of interest in Wales in the story of Madog having discovered America, and there were persistent rumours in North America of the existence of a tribe of Welsh Indians, identified with the Mandan. Iolo Morgannwg had originally intended to explore the Missouri to discover these Welsh Indians and John Evans was to have gone with him. However Iolo withdrew from the expedition and John Evans embarked for the United States alone, arriving in Baltimore in October 1792. In the spring of 1793 he made his way to St. Louis in Spanish Louisiana, where he was imprisoned for a while on suspicion of being a spy.

In April 1795 he set off on an expedition with Spanish backing to explore the Missouri and to try to discover a route to the Pacific Ocean from its headwaters. He found the Mandan in 1796, and spent the winter with them before returning to St. Louis in 1797. However he found no trace of Welsh speakers among them. He had travelled 1,800 miles up the Missouri from its confluence with the Mississippi, and he produced a map showing the course of the river. This map, passed on by Thomas Jefferson was later used by the Lewis and Clark Expedition.

Evans remained in the service of the Spanish authorities, but died in New Orleans in May 1799."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Evans_(explorer)