Defining "Spirituality"?

[Nikki 2]

I have recently made a new friend. She is a spiritual healer (with a degree in biochemistry) and she works with / is being taught by, a wonderful lady who is very obviously psychic and highly intuitive (she used to be a medium).
A discussion arose between myself and this new friend regarding "spirituality". I described my 13 year old son as "spiritually aware" - and she didn't think he was at all!
Avoiding the temptation to be annoyed (but only just) . . . . I gradually realised that our understanding of "spiritual" was very different. My son didn't talk of "seeing ghost" or of "hearing" or "smelling" things. He had no awareness of having a spirit guide etc - therefore he wasn't spiritual. I was totally stuck for an answer!
I told her about a couple of incidents that revealed his spiritual side but she just looked at me blankly. She made some comment about being a scientist and seeing things as very "black and white".
I have been surprised just how difficult it has been to unravel the whole subject for myself. . . . spiritist versus spiritual perhaps?
Can anyone help me to define spirituality?

[DJ Droood]

Can anyone help me to define spirituality?

good question...we often toss words around without thinking about them closely enough....let's start with our old friend, wiki:

Spirituality can refer to an ultimate or immaterial reality;[1] an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of their being; or the “deepest values and meanings by which people live.”[2] Spiritual practices, including meditation, prayer and contemplation, are intended to develop an individual's inner life; such practices often lead to an experience of connectedness with a larger reality, yielding a more comprehensive self; with other individuals or the human community; with nature or the cosmos; or with the divine realm.[3] Spirituality is often experienced as a source of inspiration or orientation in life.[4] It can encompass belief in immaterial realities or experiences of the immanent or transcendent nature of the world.

I think this aligns with my usage of the word. For me, spirituality is the inner process of trying to figure out just what the heck is going on..what does it all mean? Why? I think spirituality encompasses everything that *isn't* material, and can't be grasped soley with our 5 senses, although we use our 5 senses to inform our non material, inner life. I think everyone has an innate spirituality, and we exercise it from the beginning, experiencing the world around us and processing it internally to find meaning.

For some people, it might become formalized, and takes on a religious aspect, which I think of as "group spirituality", where people agree on certain meanings or share specific techniques to interpret reality. Others are more solitary, and contemplate reality on their own. Most people probably do a little of both...solitary serching, and walking a path with others.

I think every person on earth is "spiritual", in thier own way...from the Pope to Richard Dawkins. It is our birthright. So if someone says "so and so is a spirtual person", I think, "who isn't?" or if they say that you (or your young son) are *not* spiritual, I would just think they don't know what they are talking about.

[treegod]

I agree with much of what Dj Droood says. For me spirituality is having an insight into myself; Know thyself! This can also lead you to have insights about the world and about other people too.

I think things like "clairaudience", "clairvoyance" and other "occult/psychic powers" are not signs of spirituality in themselves. They are side effects, or not even that! These things are merely "phenomena" that don't necessarily take you to the centre of your own Spirit or Self.

There's a quote from St. paul in the Bible that I like that goes something like "If I speak tongues but have no love then I am but the clanging of bells." You can have the various "gifts of the Spirit", but without that essential quality, they aren't worth anything. I've written several poems on this subject, sure I can dig some out.

What quality in your son makes you think that he is spiritual?

Also (something else from the Bible) be careful what you say to people, don't give pearls to swine.

[Nikki 2]

Thank you Drood and Treegod. It's just SO good to have somewhere to bounce these sort of issues and get some well thought out SPIRITUAL feedback.
My son, in his own way, is constantly questioning the how and the why and seeking his own answers. The triskellion that he asked for - because it reminded him of the trinity etc. Drood - you are right! We are all spiritual beings whether we act like it or not. Lol.
The bible reference - the one with the clanging cymbals - I know it well!. . . Of course! . . . It's the answer to the question I didn't realise I was asking! Thanks - that makes a whole lot of sense.
The quote about not casting pearls before swine was used in one of the early gwersi - although instead of saying "swine" it said "the vulgar". Another great quote.

Tonight we took my son on a "bat walk". To our delight it was led by this amazing woman who was a zoologist - but more importantly loves wildlife with a passion and delighted in Niall's enthusiasm. She taught my son (and us) how to recognise the different calls of a fox. We used bat detectors which identified the call of the different breeds of bats. My son was delighted to have heard an owl calling - she told him that it was a barn owl and that it was a female and how to tell the difference. The moon was nearly full - and red! Niall was hanging over a gate announcing to the group "OMG - look at the moon . . Its red!!".
. . . ... . that's why I say that my son is spiritual Treegod.

Would love to see your poetry.

[FoxPhantom]

I think Treegod, you (Nikki 2), and DJ Droood have really great ideas into spirituality.

I hope you don't mind if I add in a few things the way I see, would you?

[DJ Droood]

I hope you don't mind if I add in a few things the way I see, would you?

That`s what we`re here for...dish!

[FoxPhantom]

I hope you don't mind if I add in a few things the way I see, would you?

That`s what we`re here for...dish!

Thank you. (Been having a rough time trying to get what I want to say).

I do think that being spiritual is like opening the unseen physics of life to you, or rather being more opening to more life itself. one example is the way the person sees will always have a different perspective to back it up, but it always lead to the same piece of life in a different manner. (that's all I can drag out.)

[Nikki 2]

Hi FoxPhantom,
Thank you for your reply.
"Spirituality" is such a deep and fundamental part of who we are, that you would think it would be easy to express those thoughts and feelings in words - but it isn't is it!?!
I think I know what you are saying - but correct me if I am wrong. . . .
My husband and I, over the years, have explored a wide variety of spiritual disciplines(?). Perhaps the most surprising (and exciting) thing we have discovered, is that although on the surface these differing schools of thought appear to oppose one another - it is actually amazing how the basic "truths and experiences" that seem to form the structure of many of these beliefs, are mirrored in the next. They differ in interperetation, application, cultural understanding - but the light of truth remains unchanged. It's man that opposes man, Truth cannot oppose itself.
Not quite that "all paths lead to God" but more that "God reveals himself on all paths"
Personally I find that exhilarating.
BB. Nikki.

[treegod]

My son, in his own way, is constantly questioning the how and the why and seeking his own answers.

Sounds spiritual to me

The development and evolution of human intelligence, I'd call that spiritual.

The bible reference - the one with the clanging cymbals - I know it well!. . . Of course! . . . It's the answer to the question I didn't realise I was asking! Thanks - that makes a whole lot of sense.

You're very welcome.

The quote about not casting pearls before swine was used in one of the early gwersi - although instead of saying "swine" it said "the vulgar". Another great quote.

Vulgar is it? Thanks for the info.

Tonight we took my son on a "bat walk". To our delight it was led by this amazing woman who was a zoologist - but more importantly loves wildlife with a passion and delighted in Niall's enthusiasm. She taught my son (and us) how to recognise the different calls of a fox. We used bat detectors which identified the call of the different breeds of bats. My son was delighted to have heard an owl calling - she told him that it was a barn owl and that it was a female and how to tell the difference. The moon was nearly full - and red! Niall was hanging over a gate announcing to the group "OMG - look at the moon . . Its red!!".
. . . ... . that's why I say that my son is spiritual Treegod.

Love bat walks. Been on one before, amazing that those little beeps can be a specific species!

[FoxPhantom]

Hi FoxPhantom,
Thank you for your reply.
"Spirituality" is such a deep and fundamental part of who we are, that you would think it would be easy to express those thoughts and feelings in words - but it isn't is it!?!
I think I know what you are saying - but correct me if I am wrong. . . .
My husband and I, over the years, have explored a wide variety of spiritual disciplines(?). Perhaps the most surprising (and exciting) thing we have discovered, is that although on the surface these differing schools of thought appear to oppose one another - it is actually amazing how the basic "truths and experiences" that seem to form the structure of many of these beliefs, are mirrored in the next. They differ in interperetation, application, cultural understanding - but the light of truth remains unchanged. It's man that opposes man, Truth cannot oppose itself.
Not quite that "all paths lead to God" but more that "God reveals himself on all paths"
Personally I find that exhilarating.
BB. Nikki.

Yep, That's what I wanted to add. Thanks.

[DaRC]

Yep I love to watch the bats dip in and out of the back garden
- last year we converted an unused door into a window that looks over the garden which means we can now watch from the comfort of the sofa

[Frog]

I certainly find "spirituality" quite an interesting concept. It is more than just about religous belief, more than just about understanding self, and more than just about appreciating the world around us. It is as complex - and as simple - as understanding Chi and Nwyfre energies. It is the simple understanding of life itself.

I believe that this understanding is made more complex as we try to create terms and words to describe what is (in effect) something that cannot be described.

Interestingly though, I would partially disagree with DJ Droood in his assertion that:

... every person on earth is "spiritual", in thier own way...from the Pope to Richard Dawkins. It is our birthright. So if someone says "so and so is a spirtual person", I think, "who isn't?" or if they say that you (or your young son) are *not* spiritual, I would just think they don't know what they are talking about.

... Although it is probably down to the language. I think everyone has the potential to be spiritual - there are many in this world whose current motivations are about material wealth and getting as much as possible - plundering whatever their area is to extract that goal.

[DJ Droood]

... Although it is probably down to the language. I think everyone has the potential to be spiritual - there are many in this world whose current motivations are about material wealth and getting as much as possible - plundering whatever their area is to extract that goal.

Even a motivation to aquire material wealth seems to come from the "spirit"..it is the person's inner understandinig of the outer world that tells them that "getting stuff" is their path to take....there have been some genetic studies that show many of us are descended from past warriors/plunderers, like Genghis Khan, who did exactly as you describe, and "won" the game in passing on their DNA.

An international group of geneticists studying Y-chromosome data have found that nearly 8 percent of the men living in the region of the former Mongol empire carry y-chromosomes that are nearly identical. That translates to 0.5 percent of the male population in the world, or roughly 16 million descendants living today.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/02/0214_030214_genghis.html

Niall of the Nine Hostages played a similar roll in Ireland.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8 ... dants.html

It suggests that the 5th-century warlord known as "Niall of the Nine Hostages" may be the ancestor of about one in 12 Irishmen, say researchers at Trinity College Dublin, Ireland. Niall established a dynasty of powerful chieftains that dominated the island for six centuries.

I imagine the monks who wrote about him have long since disappeared from the genetic record.

When we say someone is "spiritual/not spiritual" we are just making a value judgment and saying that person's ideology does or does not match up with our own.

[Frog]

When we say someone is "spiritual/not spiritual" we are just making a value judgment and saying that person's ideology does or does not match up with our own.

I like your thinking DJ, now I understand.

[Nikki 2]

Thank you (to all) for your replies. It's a huge subject and really interesting to read other people's views and thoughts.
Droood - the quote below, in the context of my initial post (and with hind-sight ) is spot on. Thank you for that insight. Kind-of takes the sting ot of its tail. Lol

When we say someone is "spiritual/not spiritual" we are just making a value judgment and saying that person's ideology does or does not match up with our own.

BB
Nikki

[treegod]

It's true, in the end you can only say for yourself whether you are spiritual. We cannot rely on the perceptions and projections of others to identify with.

But don't undervalue your own perception of what is spiritual or not. I have a feeling for what is spiritual or not, it's important for me to recognise a "quality" in others that I have within myself, and to be able to build understanding.

But not everyone with a "quality" will call it spiritual and not all people that talk about spirituality will have a "quality" and this is also something important to remember for understanding.

If the Pope told me "You are very spiritual", I'd take it as a compliment as long as I was sure what he meant by that. But it's a compliment and perhas suggestive, but not definitive of what is spiritual within me, and not something I have to identify with.