God as a Spirit Guide?

[Frog]

For many belief systems there are Spirit Guides who will offer advice, thoughts and considerations to our behaviours. In some cases they will be consulted with for future events, for wishes and requests.

The thought I had was "How is God - as a spiritual entity rather than the patent holder for creating the world - different from this?" I can understand that for those who follow montheistic belief systems will accept their to be one God (and that's fine) but quite often it's amended to the fact that they can appear in many forms. So is that actually the same person? Similarly then, for those who have polytheistic views - is there the possibility that this is just one god in several guises?


I would like to state though that the purpose of this thread isn't to cause problems - just a philosophical consideration that I'd thought I'd share.

[White Star]

Interesting. I recently attended a workshop at a Pagan event where it was discussed that the many different Gods and Goddesses are indeed different aspects of the same deity, in much the same way as we all present differing aspects of ourselves to whatever situation we are in. We are all capable of being partner, lover, parent, brother, sister, workmate, friend etc and these roles are all a slightly different facet of the same person. We are all male and female too to varying degrees.
My own theory is that there is indeed a deity or creative force, and that it makes itself known to those who wish to believe in an acceptable form. So the creative force is there, its different facets are "invented"? by men to make it understandable as a "personality or personalities."
Am I rambling?? sorry

Blessings

[Davin Raincloud]

That's a wiccan belief.

That the various God's are the various manifestations of the God and Goddess.

Although I could be mistaken.

[wyeuro]

a lot of druids i've spoken to call god 'the universe', the 'all', the 'one' etc. the idea is that 'god' is just a name for 'all that exists'. because that includes each one of us along with all other living and non-living beings, this means that we are all part of 'god', co-creative with 'god' and with all the creatures that contribute to our total experience and way beyond our ken. it also means you don't have to 'worship' it, just find your own delight and pleasure in it, make the best sense you can of it and feel for its suffering and pain, because you have share in it. i think is why in druidry, 'god' might speak through the flight of a bird, or the news of the world, or the person you're standing next to. i find value in asking this being that incorporates us all for guidance and help. it's purely personal of course. when i intone the awen, i envisage this vast being as making itself intelligible and accessible in a controlled magical way via the three beams which select for us the guidance, inspiration and help we need out of all the myriad. it works for me.
wyverne /|\

[White Star]

That's a wiccan belief.

That the various God's are the various manifestations of the God and Goddess.

Although I could be mistaken.

I do run my Wiccan path alongside my Druid way so I lean towards those beliefs. The speaker was a Wiccan lady she made some very interesting points during her talk.

Blessings

[treegod]

A few quotes...

"We should think of the most authoritative part of the soul as a guardian spirit given by God that lifts us to our heavenly home." Plato

"You are a fragment torn from God. You have a portion of him within you." Epitctetus

The way I understand it is that my "spirit guide" can be described as an aspect of myself and also as the reflection of God within me.

[Frog]

Thanks all,
I realised that I hadn't actually offered my own view on this.

My understanding of how energy works and exists allow me to rationally arrive at a single "blob" of energy which can become anything and everything - both visible and not; to that end the fact that energy can become sound, light, tables, trees and us inspires me to conclude that it can also create energy beings that we can't see - spirits, if you will.

To that end, I'm happy to accept that there are spirits and guardians (and there have been circumstances in my life where something came to my aid - it was too complex to just be a fortunate synchronicity of events for me). I don't accept that there is something which has overall control of how the world will go (the master plan).

Having just laid those cards on the table, my belief therefore is that the prophets that saw god actually saw their own spirit guides who offered them the wisdoms that have made their way onto the scriptures.

But as I said at the start of this thread, this is not to denegrate anyone's beliefs; I am endeavouring to understand what people think so that I can fully integrate to be a member on One Human Family.

Blessings
Frog

[wolf560]

Hello All,

I must compliment everyone for walking with light step and talking equally soft.
When I saw the name of this thread my heart actually skipped a beat.

For many of those I used to study with, the notion of a person saying their Spirit guide was in actuality a full fledged Deity would have been taken for sheer egotism.

I do agree that if the notion of any Deity (large cap for respect in all cases) should have a smaller 'spirit' that walks the Earth. I further agree that anyone with a desire and/or capability to interact with such a spirit-form would have much to gain from such a connection.

I guess my question on this forum would be;
If the persons Spirit Guide is "God" (take any Deity for this "God"), are they in fact in contact with a spirit manifestation of this Deity or are they in fact being personally guided by the Deity itself?

/|\ Mark

[Frog]

Hello Mark,

My issue with this - and why I raised it - it quite a deep philosophical one. I'm not sure in myself if I create the guide, or that the guide is really present (my experiences may be different to experiences that others have) - the whole subject of what is reality here.
But to expand from that - if we take key figures from scripture who met their God or where their God appeared to them - is that actually their spirit guide that they have then been able to use within the group consciousness, or is it a God figure and they spoke to each of the followers also?


I recognise the subject is a difficult one as it moves from a simple belief in a deity to questioning what the interaction is between us (as a human) and the Diety or Spirit figure.

Blessings
Frog.

[Huathe]

Frog,

I believe that God can be a spirit guide. God is certainly a spirit, since he is certainly above us. People communicate with him through prayer and he could reply to them as a guide. Could he take different forms? I am sure he can but whether he does I don't know.

Another thing I have wondered. Could angels be the forest spirits people feel? Could God put angels as " watchers of the forest ". It's just a thought of mine. People often have " guardian angels " as their Spirit guides. However some people diffrentiate angels and spirit guides, though their function looks the same to me. Some look at a spirit guide as a once living relative or friend, now a ghost who returns to protect a loved one. An angel is of course of divine origin.

No offense to anyone's beliefs here. I have lot's of questions myself.

Hawthorn Ent.

[wolf560]

Hello again,

Thank you for answering my post. I am glad to see we can all discuss this without it becoming a battleground of opinions.

My personal beliefs are that the Deities do not come down directly to a person but rather send a 'fetch' or a smaller part of itself. The guide takes the form of the Deity (in my case a Jaguar) and acts as a (nearly permanent) companion. I interact with this guide on an everyday basis but not in the aspect of it being subservient to my wishes but rather the other way around.

As I began exploring on my first Spirit Quests, I noticed a presence. I was later told that this was the "Watcher at the Gate" and that until I passed this 'Gate' they would remain there for me. I won't bore anyone with that but suffice to say I eventually made it.
After my first successful transition past 'the Gate' years ago, I noticed that my companion had begun to solidify (best description I can come up with). What had been a somewhat amorphous cloud had fleshed out into normal sized jaguar.

Although it is definitely a jaguar, it is not the actual JAGUAR (yes, my Deities are not humanoids). The other guides that I have are also present (nearly continuously) and were also met individually after a successful Spirit Quest. Those guides are also smaller representations of the Deities they represent but are not the actual Deity in question.

This is just my way of connecting and I hope it does not offend anyone.

In my case, I can almost hear my guides laughing as I make a mistake... or applauding if I accomplish something good. They are more than guides, they watch over me and I can feel their disapproval like a warm flame on my spine if I am not completely in Balance with their guidance. They are more of a 'companion' in my life rather than a judgmental presence or an awe-inspiring edifice. Since they are not the actual Deity, I can actually have a one on one relationship with them.

What I have found in most people is the driving need to validate their beliefs. This topic can be a very touchy one for some, but I think if more people talked it out they might understand their relationship better.

/|\ Mark

[wolf560]

Hello Hawthorn,

Sorry I missed your post when I replied to Frog.

Angels predate Christianity and have been described as minor deities in their own right. I have run into a few that believe Angels are not exclusively Christian or even exclusively Biblical.

I am approaching this (unfortunately) from an aspect of one that does not believe in Angels and Demons in the Biblical sense. So please take anything I say here in that light and with that spin on my response here.

If we accept Spirit Guides (in any form) as fact, then we can assume that earlier humans saw/felt them as well. Since these earlier humans were not fettered by a dependence on the internet or computers, they had more time to dedicate to connecting to and understanding them. It is an assumption of mine that they simply misunderstood each others description of what they saw. I think they saw the "lesser representations" of the Deity and thought they were the actual Deity itself.

I believe that we all see the same force/ spirit/ deities... but that we lack the sight to see them in their pure form and must use our own experiences to view them. If we could actually make the transition into the world beyond, I think we might see each other and the deities for what they really are (whatever that is).

Until then, I think we will continue to try to see them and describe them and that our words will simply fail to capture the entire essence of our Deities.

/|\ Mark

[Huathe]

Mark,

Some may consider Jesus and the Holy Spirit ( Ghost ) as " fetches " of God. All three comprise the Christian Trinity. Jesus even stated that " The Father is greater than I ".

James

[Oneonine]

I heard a wiccan describe god as a many faceted diamond, too brilliant to look at complete, but if you gaze into one of the facets, you will see a mirror of your need as a facet of god, be that a spirit of the land, internal guide, or whatever.

[wolf560]

Hello James,

I agree whole-heartedly with the Jesus/ Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) idea. I hold to the concept of one set of Deities and people calling them by different names.

I often had to stifle a laugh as I overheard followers of Thor calling their Deity's wrath and Vengeance down upon followers of Taranis. In my mind I could see the one Deity that both names reflect having to listen to one set of followers calling for him to "smite" another set of his followers.....

Again, just my belief and no intended slight against any other.....

/|\ Mark

[wyeuro]

I heard a wiccan describe god as a many faceted diamond, too brilliant to look at complete, but if you gaze into one of the facets, you will see a mirror of your need as a facet of god, be that a spirit of the land, internal guide, or whatever.

this is a beautiful simile - says it so well.
wyverne /|\

[Kima]

I believe that God can be a spirit guide. God is certainly a spirit, since he is certainly above us.

Personally I do not consider God to be "above" us. I have come to believe in immanence rather than transcendance. To me this means that whether or not they constitute many facets of the same God, spirits are to be found in the sensible world, on the same scale as -and including- us.