Druidry becomes an official religion in England

[lavouivre]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101002/ap_ ... recognized

Is this recognition going to change druidry?

Either from the inside, with a more structural frame and hierarchy?
Or from the outside, with a different perception from the public?

What do you think?

[Merlyn]

I see it from a few ways;
The Druid network.. Is it an order? that is a bit vague to me, as I see it more of a place for many to come to, not quite like the OBOD and such.
Their work is good, intention same, however I would have liked to see contribution or even if contribution would be considered to this end by us and other orders.

Is druidry a religion..? That is a topic or many topics all on its own.

Do we want to be classed as a religion? and if so what for?
Another dialogue in-itself.

In ways, it opens doors, in others it shuts doors, as many pagans want NOTHING to do with "religion".
So... it is a mixed bag at best, so I am of course going to call the dragons and get a take on if this beautiful raw and wild way should be... religion.

Merlyn

[lavouivre]

Merlyn, I agree, I like druidry now because it has nothing to do with religion. It seems to me that this "recognition" closes more doors spiritually than it opens other doors.
I like my private beliefs and own way of working to find a personnal path. It seems to me that recognizing druidry as religion is almost a first step to freezing it, taking away from my freedom to accomodate a whole group into a belief system that might not work for me.
This is probably because religion has become synonymous to inflexible belief systems like monotheism.
On the other hand, the recognition might take away some of the edge of "weirdness" that people exterior to druidry might apply to us, or the fear of sectarism in newcomers. It might also give organizations like OBOD more power administration-wise. (am thinking about recognition of ceremonies like marriage etc)?
I just hope OBOD will remain as is, with its great freedom.

[Philip]

Hi Lavouivre,

Thank you for saying this: "I just hope OBOD will remain as is, with its great freedom."
I think one of our strengths is that we try our best to avoid too much definition and allow everyone to make of Druidry what they will - I think that's a gift in a world where everyone is trying to nail things down (an unfortunate image, given that we're talking about religion but you know what I mean!).

[serenarian]

I don't think anything has to change at all.

For me, Druidry is my spiritual path, my religion if you will. It makes no difference to me whether people in my country recognise it as such. I believe as I believe, my experiences are my own, and nothing else need change.

[lavouivre]

Well Philip,
I LOVE OBOD as is and it is probably thanks to you, Susan etc, who carefully planned and thought out the gwer and ritual systems so that they avoid the pitfalls of religions and leave the choice to each of us.
It is a great achievement.
If OBOD is going to ask for recognition as a religion too, I hope we stay what we are: philosophers, seekers of wisdom and psyche, open-minded and connected to nature the way we feel it best. With as little labels as possible.
I am glad druidry is recognized as religion just because it feels like a kind of victory after roughly 2,000 years of christian domination. But I am also weary about what it can do to druidry. Hope it doesn't spoil us!

[lavouivre]

trying to nail things down (an unfortunate image, given that we're talking about religion but you know what I mean!).

just read that part more carefully!

[lavouivre]

I believe as I believe, my experiences are my own

This is how I want it to be too.
I guess I am just thinking of how the christian religion began. At first it was pretty free too, compared to what it became in the Middle-Ages, with no real hierarchy during the time of the apostles. But then, they get organized, and then they get recognition by the Emperor Constantin, and then, they become insufferable for the next 1500-2000 years, with a canon and heretics

[Paul Mitchell]

The danger comes in people responding to this development in a way that enables division and strife. It strikes me that those who brought this about are not telling anyone else what they are or what they believe; they are not saying all druidry is this or that, they speak only for their organisation and offered a definition that has been accepted.

There are those within druidry who are even now drawing up battle lines over this. Good grief

[Dendrias]

Anger might, Paul Mitchell, be born out of fear, methinks.

[Paul Mitchell]

I also think think it's born from a desire for power. Coupled with a significant amount of boredom!

[Dendrias]

[DJ Droood]

I also think there are undercurrents of "druid politics" in the UK that those of us in NA only have a vague idea about. What may seem to us like "good on them" might be the culmination of some years long power play.

[lavouivre]

That's interesting DJ. I don't know much about the other druid movements/orders and how different or similar they are from OBOD.

[DJ Droood]

That's interesting DJ. I don't know much about the other druid movements/orders and how different or similar they are from OBOD.

me neither...I have only seen mutterings on the board about councils and breakaway factions, etc.

[lavouivre]

Must research the board a bit more...

[Davin Raincloud]

ADF is a recognised religious group in the US. But I think it's a bit easie rthere to be recogniosed (after all the civil rights fights for freedom of religion).

[Badger Bob]

It has certainly made for an uncomfortable few days for me, having to put up with scorn and ridicule from the atheist taliban at work. It has also driven a wedge between me and the few Christians who were previously friendly but now see me as just as much a threat as the atheists after reading the Daily Mail hatchet job.

It has also made me question whether I want to be associated with something trying to become established as a religion. I have always had ambiguous feelings about the religious/spiritual-philosophical side of things and the current trends seem to be painting me into a corner in which I do not wish to be stuck.

[RidgeDruid]

An interesting discussion which highlights to me the great differences between the US and the UK in such matters. In the US we have a very strong legal and cultural tradition that people have a right to follow whatever spiritual practice suits them, and should they choose to organize themselves into an entity such as a church, temple, grove, or whatever, they are entitled to the legal presumption that they are engaged in "*fill in the blank*" practice and entitled to the same tax status as traditional churches. Of course, that is not to say that there is equal popular tolerance and acceptance for all paths as a matter of course. I have friends in ADF who are "legally" recognized clergy, as well as friends who minister to congregations that are loosely Christian-based. Of course here, as in most places, the strongest opposition to minority paths comes from fundamentalist groups who believe that they have the one path.

For example:

Government entities do recognize Wicca as a religion. In 2001, the revised edition of the U.S. Air Force Personnel Data System (MilMod) included Dianic Wicca, Druidism, Gardnerian Wicca, Pagan, Seax Wicca, Shamanism, and Wicca. Not only that, the Military Chaplain's Handbook acknowledges Wicca within its pages and outlines procedures for interacting with Wiccan and Pagan soldiers. http://paganwiccan.about.com/od/yourleg ... Pagans.htm

Although I consider myself a fairly well educated person in many matters, I am constantly reminded how little I know about cultural religious/history in Europe and the UK. I am currently reading a fascinating book "Making Haste from Babylon" which deals with the cultural and economic forces underlying the Pilgrim voyage to America. Highly recommended.

[DJ Droood]

An interesting discussion which highlights to me the great differences between the US and the UK in such matters.

It is interesting...but is it a lot of smoke in the news right now, and is it meaningful in a long term way? I have no idea what my country's position is....I don't think we have "officially recognized" religions..the last time I checked a few years ago, you just needed 25 unique "families" or households on-board to register your cult and become an officiant, so of course, I don't think any pagan or druid group has ever attempted it, to my knowledge. (I don't think they accept web petition names.) There are also organizations that have somehow registered officiants and run wedding services, although they will do/say whatever you weant as long as you give them $500, so I don't know if religion actually has anything to do with the marriage racket. The political culture is intensely secular, with even the right-wing religious loonies in government trying to hide their views about cavemen and dinosaurs, and we have a Charter of Rights that protects people's freedom of worship (or non-worship). The tax exempt thing would be silly....why lobby to get 30 cents of tax back on that bag of tea candles?