What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby lavouivre » 06 Oct 2010, 21:38

Wolf560, this is fascinating! And funny too for some parts (the chaplain, hehe). You should probably write a book :D

I guess druidry can fit a lot of ways of life and you are certainly proof of that!

Attila wrote:Mystic judge who can pierce the depths of ones mind, as opposed to simply a judge, a priest with inner sight/perception rather than one without ect.


I am sure that after a life of study, the druids could "read" most people because of a deep knowledge of human beings and psychology, and body language, and probably also a knowledge of the inhabitants since childhood. However, intangible things happen also all the time, like instinct and synchronicity, and weird succession of events, that materialism or science can't explain (yet?). Besides, our mind, our brain doesn't work in an all materialistic world. We live with if's, and dreams, and believe in flattening mountains, we look back, we look forward, we question huge mysteries like Death and Life... So I think druidry can fit a materialistic person's view on life, but druidry cannot be defined with materialism only, as it is larger than that (and for you it certainly is much more, which is only enriching your experience!).
I don't think there is a contradiction, just a different path, like a twig in a tree.
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby wolf560 » 06 Oct 2010, 22:04

Hello again..!!

I still remember my Tarot mentor..... "Mark, you know the meanings of the cards and their positions. The person knows the question and the nuances of the situation. You won't always be able to know all of what the seeker is asking, and they will never know all of the different meanings of the cards interactions. Watch their reaction and in the end you'll just have to put it all into a string of connected thoughts. Watch their face as you go over each card slowly, and hopefully the story you see developing is the story they hold in their mind."

She taught me not to ask for the question prior to the reading because it just "spoiled the reading". She said that Tarot readers who had the question beforehand would form the answer too early (or worse) and often times missed the nuances. For some of my readings, I never knew what the question was. For most of my readings I never asked for the outcome.

For all of my readings I told them "You stand at a crossroad, and you have a choice to make. Reacting to this reading will cause the near future to unfold differently because you may now be acting to change it. If you do not wish to change anything, perhaps having this reading is a bad idea. If you decide to continue with the reading remember this is now just a possibility and not a probability any longer."
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby lavouivre » 06 Oct 2010, 22:17

Well, I see the future pretty much like a tree too, with many paths entertwined like branches. There are so many things that can be involved in decision making that reading must be a tricky business. And it must be both materialistic (body language) and totally not so (instinct or "seing"?).
It reminds me of Macbeth and the witches' prophecy (or Oedipus' story too). Do your reaction on a prophecy makes it true? Would it have happened if you had not heard it?
Can you really predict the little details or just the great lines/directions?
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby wolf560 » 06 Oct 2010, 22:55

lavouivre wrote: Do your reaction on a prophecy makes it true? Would it have happened if you had not heard it? Can you really predict the little details or just the great lines/directions?


EXACTLY..!!!

I always warned my Seekers that as soon as we sat down we were "changing the outcome".
:grin:
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby FoxPhantom » 07 Oct 2010, 04:02

Looking at the direction and avoiding it can change the outcome, I have read Tarot cards before, but I forgot the meanings of each card.(IMO)
'
With Atheism, I do think that they want to be in something that does not have to do with gods, As for Materialism, as far as I know it's possible to fit it in Druidry since many things are made out of energy, magic or so on.

But wouldn't energy be invisible to the physical eyes?
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby wolf560 » 07 Oct 2010, 04:40

FoxPhantom wrote:But wouldn't energy be invisible to the physical eyes?


I used to belong to a large group of Pagans.
We had an interesting discussion years ago about this.
Several people that "saw auras" were asked if they saw something in the room.
Some replied that they did, others said they did not.

What they were not told was that eight of us had set up a "cone of power" ritual in the very center of the room. The few that described the cone of power exactly made us start thinking about the connection between seeing auras and seeing energy patterns. The group began setting up experiments like this all the time, and some of us "saw energy" and some of us did not. I was probably 50-50 in the 3-4 times they did it to me.

If you concentrate enough you just might be able to "see energy"...
But until you have someone set up a controlled experiment like we did you'll never really know how much of it was your imagination.
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby FoxPhantom » 07 Oct 2010, 05:05

wolf560 wrote:If you concentrate enough you just might be able to "see energy"...
But until you have someone set up a controlled experiment like we did you'll never really know how much of it was your imagination.


From my personal EXP, I have seen energy once or twice when I hold it in my hands (which I can feel). but isn't that also using the third eye chakra to see it?

Or am I taking things out of context. :/

Edit: Sorry Wolf560, I forgot about my personal EXP, and left it outside of the philosophical matter.
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby wolf560 » 07 Oct 2010, 05:13

Hey there Fox...

I never studied any part of the Chakras (although perhaps I should begin soon LOL).

But I'll take a guess at it and agree with you.

I know that each Chakra was connected in some way to a specific thing/ action.
For me, since I believe that we are a "whole person" rather than a collection of our parts and pieces I feel that energy can not only be seen but felt and heard (and maybe even tasted).
.
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby DaRC » 07 Oct 2010, 12:24

wolf560 wrote:For all of my readings I told them "You stand at a crossroad, and you have a choice to make. Reacting to this reading will cause the near future to unfold differently because you may now be acting to change it. If you do not wish to change anything, perhaps having this reading is a bad idea. If you decide to continue with the reading remember this is now just a possibility and not a probability any longer."


hehehe :grin: that reminds me of being in New Orleans 20 years ago with a lot of peer pressure to have a reading. I refused, 'cos I suspected she'd tell me something I didn't really want to hear but in my heart I knew the answer anyway.
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby wolf560 » 07 Oct 2010, 18:50

Yes, and just another reason why I never accepted money.
I was told by my mentor to consider every reading was special and a chance to hone my craft.
.
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby darthwibble » 22 Mar 2012, 05:01

Sorry to be a late comer to the conversation, and also not trying to sidetrack the original intent of it. But this post in particular brought up some things I have been thinking about a great deal lately, and I desired other peoples opinions and perpectives on it, as well as Wolf560 (if he doesn't mind).
wolf560 wrote:The Druids of Caesars time were Seers or Priests (Vates), but were also Judges and Lawyers (Brehons and Brithim), Doctors and Masters of their craft (Ollamh) Astrologers and Astronomers (Ollamh and Vates), Bards and Poets (Filidh), Historians of the tribe, Emissaries to distant lands and Teachers of their craft to any who would listen.

In our modern times, Druids have come to be known by only the first mentioned.
In many ways I am happy to see the return of Druidry.
In some ways I wish it were a full return rather than just the Ovates and Bards.
.


As I gather it, the Bards were tellers of tales, the "singers and poets" (- Strabo)
But when taken in the context of Celtic culture, specifically the ways of oral tradition, I have begun to think of the Bards as a type of ancient historian as well. :duck:
Please let me explain my thinking on this.... :thinking:
In a culture that is oral based, a group dedicated to the stories of their people, the songs and poems and myths and so forth, would be in a real sense the keepers of the history of those people. Those songs and myths and tales and poems are the history, they are the past for that particular tribe.
Modern historians are a world apart from the story tellers of old. But from their own perspective, I think the Bards would have also held a place in their society that is somewhat similar to historians in our time. They could tell what the old kings did, how the battles were fought and won, while also telling stories of the Gods and similar myths. In the area of past kings and battles, how different is that from our historians? Yes, there is the expectation of historians stating only the facts, (which is debatable to some, as history is written by the winners, but for this topic I will skip over that). There is also the point that story tellers are often interested in entertaining more than the facts. The Bards were certainly tellers of tales, among other things. But the place they held in Celtic culture, as singers and poets, did that equally make them like unto historians, in verse and prose?
I am certain the Druids, as teachers (I can't recall the quote on who named them as teachers just now, its late for me) , would also know the stories and history of the tribe. That is to be expected. I have just been thinking lately on all this as it pertains to the Bards, and wondering what others thought on it, agree or disagree.
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby DaRC » 23 Mar 2012, 13:30

I am certain the Druids, as teachers (I can't recall the quote on who named them as teachers just now, its late for me) , would also know the stories and history of the tribe. That is to be expected. I have just been thinking lately on all this as it pertains to the Bards, and wondering what others thought on it, agree or disagree.

It is well attested in Ireland that they needed to understand the history of the tribe. The number of stories that an Ollamh needed to know meant that they should also understand the history of the land and the tribe.
Recent genetic research has suggested that the Book of Invasions, which was written down by Christian monks from the oral tradition, may be much closer to the truth (going back to the post Glacial Age / Mesolithic) than historians had previously suggested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebor_Gab%C3%A1la_%C3%89renn
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby darthwibble » 25 Mar 2012, 20:25

Thanks for the reply, and the link, DaRC.
My Irish mythology is wanting, I admit. I have been reading up on it, but new sites of interest are always welcome.
It is amazing, yet understandable, how so many of the stories are given links to Biblical figures. A good portion linking to Noah, the flood, etc. Even stories of Ireland itself being flooded, twice (don't know if there is archeological evidence for that, but I have the internet, so of course I will look!), with the people being wiped out, also plague wiping them out. And an old man standing witness to the land. :old:
There is much to learn. :D
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby DJ Droood » 25 Mar 2012, 23:42

darthwibble wrote:It is amazing, yet understandable, how so many of the stories are given links to Biblical figures. A good portion linking to Noah, the flood, etc.


Here is a fun site that has nothing to do with atheism or druidry, but is a fun mix of Christianity and materialism:

http://arkencounter.com/
When Noah built the Ark, it stood as a symbol of salvation. No doubt Noah preached that only those who went through the Ark’s door would be saved from coming judgment.

What if we built the Ark (out of wood) today? Imagine the impact it could have on the world. What a powerful outreach to teach the world about God’s Word and the message of salvation!


For $1000, you can purchase a plank for the Ark...for that price, you would think the Ministry of Public Works was behind this...perhaps they are...it is in Kentucky.
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby wolf560 » 30 Mar 2012, 08:58

I have always had a theory about these Bards back then and the stories they had to learn (memorize word-for-word possibly)...

If you were one of these Bards; Poets, Historians, whatever and you knew that many stories
...it stands to reason that at least one of these masters of the spoken word might have learned other tribes histories as well.

That being said, imagine you are that Bard-Poet and you have just returned from five years living with another tribe from across a mountain range.
Imagine further that you are standing beside your King telling him that certain banners of the opposing army are 'good fighters' or 'inadequately led warriors'...
Imagine further yet that some of these types of people existed in all of the tribes... not 'spies' per se but rather Intelligence Officers offering 'advice to Kings and Chieftains'.

Just my UPG, and of course very little in anything written down... but I am still willing to bet a Guinness that there was at least one Bard-Poet who did this back in the day...
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby DaRC » 31 Mar 2012, 10:34

Well you're not wrong Julius Caesar had one such Druid advising him during the Gallic Wars...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diviciacus_%28Aedui%29
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Re: What has atheism and materialism got to do with druidry?

Postby wolf560 » 31 Mar 2012, 19:29

Yes, Diviacus was an important part of the Aedui tribe and some say a Druid as well.
I do not see anything necessarily wrong with this as we do not know what they went through int he decades prior to this event.

Caesar was a brilliant engineer and strategist, and after the Gallic Wars was assassinated by his own people.... why?

Because Caesar elevated some of the Celts to positions on the Roman Senate...

...hmmm, not so bad after all maybe.....
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