Cerridwen

[MistyNightWind]

Since Druidry and paganism has major roots in nature, it makes sense that we can find the Gods and Goddesses within nature. For me this is always something I try to do.

With Cerridwen since she is often seen as the crone, and some would see the maiden aspect as Brigit, who is associated with springs (of water) and the sun. It would follow then that Cerridwen is associated with the sea, since this is the end of that part of the water cycle- although I know the water cycle does actually never end, but is at the opposite end to the spring.

On a similiar thread also caves because of her cauldron. This got me thinking, maybe she could be associated with bats? Since they often dwell in caves. So for instance if one was focusing on the rebirth and transformation aspect of Cerridwen bats could make a veichle for this, while her matron animal the sow came about through her denoting fertility.

And she would also be associated with the moon (at least the dark moon), I assume through her fertility aspect?


These are just some thoughts that occured to be while reading about her. But I would love to know what other peoples thoughts are on this.

Love and Laughter
Misty

[wyeuro]

Cerridwen's place in nature isn't really discussed much in the literature as far as i know, but her place in my life leads me to think that yours is a legitimate exploration of her nature. my sense of who she is has evolved as a result of simplistically believing (experimentally) that she wants to reveal herself and then assessing how my meditation on her is progressing. the result of doing this powerfully confirms my sense that if you seek her, whoever she is will enrich your life with her magic and your understanding of her will evolve rapidly as a result of her inspiration. some regard her as only a spirituality that you can call into being like that of any character, fictional or historical or whatever. others regard her as a real being transcendental but engaged with our lives, and between these are many variants. in my experience the transformative role she plays tends to be foregrounded above her role as a nature god, but that's partly because of who i am - she might manifest quite differently to you. i have made her an altar of sorts and talk to her as if she were really present. that works for me.
wyverne /|\

[Zylah]

Misty, thank you for sharing your thoughts! Your post was really intriguing; what you said about the sea makes a lot of sense, and the connection with bats is an interesting idea. Wyverne, your reply was full of insight and as thought-provoking as usual. I appreciate this thread more in part because I have a hard time connecting with Ceridwen. I'm slowly learning to appreciate some of her qualities, but it's difficult work to undertake, for some reason. Someone incredulously asked me how I could be more comfortable with the Morrighan than with Ceridwen, and I honestly don't know.

[MistyNightWind]

your understanding of her will evolve rapidly as a result of her inspiration

I have definantly found this to be true. Although I was using her name as a mantra for meditation but this no longer seems to be working as well as it did. But using a variation of this meditation: http://paganlore.com/view_my_book_of_shadows_printable.aspx?Spell=The%20Cauldron%20of%20Cerridwen%20Meditation&ID=401 is working for me. So I would be interested, Wyeuro, how you meditate on Cerridwen, but of this is personal I understand.

some regard her as only a spirituality that you can call into being like that of any character, fictional or historical or whatever. others regard her as a real being transcendental but engaged with our lives

I can understand both of these, and think for me she fits into both- shes an idea/concept which you can engage with and through this engagement she becomes a real being for the person experiencing her.

As for her manifestations, I guess that was what I was/am seeking. As I always look for Gods in nature, until I found an association with her to caves she was rather abstract, which made her no less real but difficult to experience all her aspects. I guess through different manifestations and associations we can experience more aspects of her? Like you in meditation I talk to her as if she we there, even when she was purely abstract for me.

Zylah, Im pleased you like this thread I did have some thoughts on this:

Someone incredulously asked me how I could be more comfortable with the Morrighan than with Ceridwen, and I honestly don't know

Maybe its because The Morrigan is associated with war and soverignity of the land whereas Cerridwen isn't as much. Ive found The Morrigan to be very powerful, even in healing because her destructive side can be used to destroy illness. Also her animals are apparantly the raven and crow which cerridwen isnt associated with, but I don't want to sound like Im making lists and compartments, but I guess it all adds to the idea behind her.

[wyeuro]

well, if you want to compare notes, at a personal level, ceridwen amazes me, and i know she often emerges as a wild, even dangerous witch for some people. ( i identify, to some extent ).

i actually scry and while scrying i talk in my head to the gods i feel approaching me, and sometimes i invoke the ones i love. i study the etymology of their names, and ask them to enter my life by setting up shrines and making gifts. i did not know of any connection that ceridwen has with caves, YET, when i built her shrine, the place i instinctively gave her was a cave under a tree root very close to my goat yard.

then i asked how she could help in my life. she makes me aware in many ways that she is there ( i see her in visions, i see her near the shrine as a tiny person, small enough to fit into the cave, i felt her close to me as i drew pictures of her, i experience telepathy with her and study her mythos.) i know my trust in my vision can't make it real if it isn't, but i am in no doubt that she is real and is taking a pleased interest in my research. she asked for one of my goats, the kid of a doe named flow, and the kid grew beautifully as a result of her care. when i was going through hard times, i had much kindly help from her, and her pig. i have barely begun to recognise the magical transformative work she has brought into my life, because i'm so amazed at the small everyday things she helps me with - goat-care, marmalade making, caring for my chooks and fighting off consumerism and the unethical options we get pressured into if we're not confident enough of our more scrupulous choices.

i think i'm nearly ready to begin looking at alchemy and she will be one of my teachers.

of course, there are all sorts of places i could be deluding myself, but as they say, that matters less than that the experience is sane, safe and healthy for me, which nothing much has been without the help of my ancestral gods.
sweet blessings of peace

wyverne /|\

[katie bridgewater]

I think if we are looking for Ceridwen in a the context of 'nature' then a good place to start is by looking at the land she came from and what she did there. She is supposed to have lived with her husband on an island on lake Bala and the stories are centred very much on the shores of this lake. Perhaps, as well as looking for correspondences with archetypes like the sea, we can find Ceridwen by visiting (if we are lucky enough to live on this sacred island) or finding out about her local geography (if we are not). There is a shrine on the shores of the lake in her honour and the landscape is full of her and her story. The herbs she gathered still grow there and the shape of the land gives flesh to the bones of her story. Since looking at it this way,the need to map meanings onto her has become less important to me, but the need to ponder the words of her story and associated texts has become more, as they contain so much meaning of their own.

I can see how the cauldron could lend itself to the concept of the cave. But I think the cauldron in the original texts is either exactly that, a cauldron, or a whirlpool (I understand the word can be translated as either). I think the fact that her cauldron contains the Awen is important, and for me, this ides doesn't necessarily match up with the idea of the cave. The cauldron has a rim which encircles the brew, but the cave an entrance through which we enter. I found the poem 'The Cauldron of Poesie' (which doesn't mention caves, but makes a lot of sense intuitively, like poems often do) to be really useful in understanding the cauldron and what it represents and can mean. Cauldrons are powerful objects, made of metal and costly, and allow the brewing of all kinds of things. I heartily recommend stirring one for a very long time over a fire to connect with Ceridwen and the meaning of the cauldron!

[Heddwen]

Lake Bala translates as Llyn Tegid in Welsh, Tegid being the name of Ceridwens husband. He allegedly resides deep within the lake as a monster, rather like the Loch Ness Monster. She's seen very much as the third of three fates; Goddess of Death, pregnant Virgin and Rebirth.
Being very much an Underworld Goddess, she has some similar qualities to those of other cultures, such as Ereshkigal. Also I've linked her to other Underworld deities Freya also known as Syr or Sow and to Demeter(Ker) known as Phorcis the sow.

Taliesins emergence from the transformational leather bag (her womb) occurred near a salmon weir, some say this is Cardigan Bay, Ceredigion. At extreme low tides during the springtime preserved ancient treetrunks are exposed giving a brief insight of the land prior to the flooding caused by a tsunammi/Ceridwens cauldron cracking and overflowing. I will put up some pictures of this next spring.

[Fox of the Oaks]

i think i'm nearly ready to begin looking at alchemy and she will be one of my teachers.

I'd love to hear some of your conclusions about the subject!

Regarding Cerridwen, I have not consciously worked with her much, currently I feel more and more a connection with Brigid being forged.

Peace,
PineRaven.

[D'Arzhur]

I relate to Ceridwen as the Goddess of the Moon... Both the moon and Ceridwen have become much more present since I entered the (obod) Ovate forest.
I relate to the cauldron mostly thru Ceridwen (but also Brigid as alchemist and the Cailleach as the Crone -as illustrated so beautifully in the Druidcraft Tarot)

I found the poem 'The Cauldron of Poesie' (which doesn't mention caves, but makes a lot of sense intuitively, like poems often do) to be really useful in understanding the cauldron and what it represents and can mean. Cauldrons are powerful objects, made of metal and costly, and allow the brewing of all kinds of things. I heartily recommend stirring one for a very long time over a fire to connect with Ceridwen and the meaning of the cauldron!

Thanks for posting this Kate ! This is the link I googled :
http://www.thunderpaw.com/neocelt/poesy.htm

[Aurora]

This has been fascinating,

I've become very close to Cerridwen over my study of the bardic grade and relate to her very much in the aspect of a mother. She can be very nurturing and supportive while enabling you to find your own unique way in the world but like all good mothers she will tell you when enough is enough and deliver the swift kick in the backside if you ignore her too. She has helped me come to terms with the cyclical nature of the world around me, and to not be so afraid of endings while helping me start new beginnings.

[dreamguardian]

Sorry guys, I just see her as a character from a 12th century book. I cannot envisage her as a Goddess of any description or that there's any evidence that she was ever viewed as a deity.

Just an opinion, thats all

[Peter Freeman]

I found this thread truly fascinating. There are some terrific insights here. The tale itself has deep meanings on many levels. Ceridwen is the spouse of Tegid Foel (Tegid the bald) a local deity and God of the lake. He and Ceridwen produce great beauty and great ugliness. However it is the great ugliness that motivates Ceridwen to stir the cauldron of inspiration. There are life lessons injust that opening to the story,
Ceridwen presents, as do the ancient Gods of all people, a kind of fierce love that directs and forces the very best out of Gwion. It seems to fit in with the harsh life of our ancestors. In mundane terms, if you want to survive the winter you had better work hard and well at building a shelter.
There's a lot morebut a meditation on Ceridwen brings out inspiration all of it's own.

[Fox of the Oaks]

Some good insights. Factual or not, often myth and story has a deep power to guide us in wisdom if we approach it in the right manner.
I would love to be able to connect more with Celtic and Druidic Deities, but it seems now in my life so many other areas are opening up that need my applied effort to take them somewhere - Directed by the Goddess no doubt anyway, just my focus is on what she is showing me rather than Her directly. Still I would do well to unite the two in a deeper relationship with Her.

PineRaven.

[MistyNightWind]

Sorry for the delay in replying, I've been busy with uni work, but it's great to come back to so many replies
So in response to the first few.

Wyeuro - what you've described sounds beautiful it's lovely you've managed to intergrate Cerridwen into your everyday life, that's something I'd love to achieve/do. I;m figuring it has more to do with focus and time? And etymology is a good point in regards to understanding her and should have thought of that sooner since I study language...

Katie

I can see how the cauldron could lend itself to the concept of the cave. But I think the cauldron in the original texts is either exactly that, a cauldron, or a whirlpool (I understand the word can be translated as either). I think the fact that her cauldron contains the Awen is important, and for me, this ides doesn't necessarily match up with the idea of the cave. The cauldron has a rim which encircles the brew, but the cave an entrance through which we enter. I found the poem 'The Cauldron of Poesie' (which doesn't mention caves, but makes a lot of sense intuitively, like poems often do) to be really useful in understanding the cauldron and what it represents and can mean. Cauldrons are powerful objects, made of metal and costly, and allow the brewing of all kinds of things.

I'll certainly look up this poem. I guess from this view of Cerridwen also emphasises her creative/creation aspect - as she stirrs the Awen in cauldron where life comes from.

Heddwen - Can't wait to see those pictures


Love and Laughter
Misty