My obstacle with italian pagans

[BlackMoon]

When I had joined this forum, I expected to find polytheistic pagans who were following the Druid path.
Instead I found a forum for monotheists Christians that year nothing to do with me what I expected.
I was disappointed, for this reason, I had stopped coming to this forum, and for this there will be more.
I was prepared for a better response with quotations and examples, but a private message I received, I was disappointed a lot ...
The mistake ....... and my Christianity and still too printed in the minds of people who fear years .....
Ok you are right .... million years of history and the wrong people in the history of monotheism and just ....... just all others are wrong ...
I have no words ..... I have no words ..... how sad ....

[skh]

BlackMoon, just read the thousands of other threads on this board, look around, and enjoy the diversity

(Diversity always includes people with different opinions than yours, of course. Or mine, for that matter.)

peace /|\
Sonja

[DJ Droood]

I like to think of most "Christian druids" as being about halfway there....moving in the right direction...sort of like bottles bobbing on the tide going back out. I think it is probably best to be kind and patient with almost everyone...and especially on these forums, the one's who just don't "get it" will eventually get frustrated and leave anyway..usually in glorious and entertaining flameouts...there are always a handful of evangelists here, pretending to be druids and trying to use druidry as a tool to "witness"...they are humourously obvious and usually don't last long. I prefer to think of "real" druids as spiritual philosophers and scientists who experiment and test and think, rather than strict believers and adherents of the various mono and poly children's stories from bygone worlds. Sorry Blackmoon, but your staunch paganism is as threadbare as any Bishop's robe.

Plus this is "OBOD" druidry..they don't make a secret of their inclusive philosophy...why would someone that doesn't agree frustrate themselves here? There must be lots of hardcore "authentic" druid messageboards out there...aren't there?

[Dendrias]

When I came here, I expected to find polytheistic pagans as well - thank the gods I didn't find self-righteous stubborn dogmatics without any mission, but with the capability to have an argument and listen to whatever other side there may be. Some are different, though.

And sometimes, it's the real witty and wise people that leave. Not to my entertainment, of course. Only the best leave young, they say.

[Attila]

I don’t know what the point of threads like this is, accept the pagans difference to you rather than see it as an obstacle and just get on with it.

What is the point, do you people want to feel accepted into obod which is clearly already what you want it to be? or do you want to push it further down the christian way?

All that aside here is some excellent christian druidry by Blake;

To see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wild flower,
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.

http://www.artofeurope.com/blake/bla3.htm

The thing about such poetry is that one has to intuit its meaning, which then denies dogma, if one tries to explain its meaning then this druidic principle applies; 'once it is written it is lost', to me that’s what druidry is all about. You can perhaps understand that many of us wouldn’t like that to change so we have to keep the Christians on their toes. druidry is universalism, but christianity is not quite that so there is a fundamental difference.

[Dendrias]

accept the pagans difference to you

so we have to keep the Christians on their toes.

Not that I would speak out of a christian position, but what is wrong in accepting ... well, even the christian parts in here? When christians address christian topics on a board that is not (intended to be) anti-christian ... why not? Nobody asks the atheist-party whether they wanted to push anything anywhere.

or do you want to push it further down the christian way?

Nobody wants to build a wall! At least, I think so. I hope so. Eruannie just had a problem (in her eyes, and that's the important thing, isn't it) and asked a question. So what?

[Eruannie]

or do you want to push it further down the christian way?

Nobody wants to build a wall! At least, I think so. I hope so. Eruannie just had a problem (in her eyes, and that's the important thing, isn't it) and asked a question. So what?

I certainly don't want to raise walls, on the contrary, I worked on myself in recent months to be as open-minded as possible ...

I wrote this post to discuss this problem I have in my country when I say being a Christian Druid receiving almost always BlackMoon reactions and I thikn the boards have this purpose ...

However it makes no sense to continue indefinitely. We talked, we discussed, I received some advice ... it can also end here.
Thanks again to everyone. Blessings!

[Explorer]

or do you want to push it further down the christian way?

Nobody wants to build a wall! At least, I think so. I hope so. Eruannie just had a problem (in her eyes, and that's the important thing, isn't it) and asked a question. So what?

I certainly don't want to raise walls, on the contrary, I worked on myself in recent months to be as open-minded as possible ...

I wrote this post to discuss this problem I have in my country when I say being a Christian Druid receiving almost always BlackMoon reactions and I thikn the boards have this purpose ...

However it makes no sense to continue indefinitely. We talked, we discussed, I received some advice ... it can also end here.
Thanks again to everyone. Blessings!

Don't let it put you down. You are clearly developing, changing and growing, you are not the one who is stuck here. It will be fine.
I wish you well on your journey and greet Francis from me if you meet him. Blessed be!

[Merlyn]

Hummm....................
Blessings of the full moon all.

Don't let the dogmas get in the way of your bliss,
Growing comes in many forms and growing from one religion into another way can have a mid-way.
Adopting the good in more than one way is a brave thing..

It is true that: Christian religion is exclusive in ways.
That is if one goes by the dogma of it.

There are other ways to Christ, his message and all. (book aside and all...)
He was (still is) a rather magical fellow

Some of us druid types like the dragons and all,

[Attila]

I agree druidry should be inclusive, but there are limits. it’s a bit like jews accepting Nazism ~ an extreme example just to show the philosophical point of course.

The reason why I am dubious is this; how can a thread like this not cause trouble? Surely the author knew this was a contentious subject [judging on the title], and also that obod is already a druidic order which accepts Christians into its ranks!

Now, if I didn’t think Christians had some kind of an agenda [even where none is made exactly], or that in the least their desire isn’t sometimes to influence druidry, then there would be no problem. If that was not the case then why threads like this? [almost forcing us to accept it or it means we are being horrible to somone ~ which none of us want to be].

If I were to put a curse on anyone doing that, then they would be unaffected and I would get no karma back from it, yes? No I didn’t think so.

[DJ Droood]

that obod is already a druidic order which accepts Christians into its ranks!

And at one time the Christians were wanting to expand and had open arms for the druids...and look who disappeared for 1000 years! Let's use the same clever ploy...open up the lobster trap and let them come in!

[Attila]

And at one time the Christians were wanting to expand and had open arms for the druids...and look who disappeared for 1000 years! Let's use the same clever ploy...open up the lobster trap and let them come in!

Yes but they opened their arms only a few hundred years ago, and even then only slightly, whilst we disappeared for nearer 2000 years if you include the roman dismissal of our ‘religion’.

They come in and get to the top in enough numbers and they change druidry into a form of Christianity, such is the problem with accepting exclusionists [like my analogy with the jews and Nazis].

[Dendrias]

You guys are really "cooking in your own broth"!

[Attila]

You guys are really "cooking in your own broth"!

Ha, maybe, but we didn’t put the pot on the fire and light it.

[Dendrias]

Everybody is responsible for his own pot! Have a good night. I'm still thinking about morals.

[Merlyn]

Yes, this will always come up now & then, here, there and everywhere.
These don't like those and they can't be like them etc....

And, often also comes the question: how is druidry different from all other religions, spiritual paths and such??

And: what exactly is druidry inclusive of?

After so many views, reviews, revisions, takes and mistakes, I see it like this,
To be Drui is an active part of life, not life as a whole. As soon as I look at 'druid' as a thing, druidry gets lost in the cauldron of all other things.
So.. in this perspective of what a Druid does, is progressive, always will be and this will always be inclusive in this way.

Unlike all other dogmatic religions...which cling to a set way, stated goal and predetermined life...

We dragons seem to think we have a future role, a part of and in life that we actively make.
That just blows the wad for religions.. and they just don't like it..

And that is just fine by me.

[Attila]

I'm still thinking about morals.

Here’s something to carry on with…

I went to a chippy the other day and the Portuguese chap [I couldn’t understand what he was saying] said; ‘I have only the language god gave me’.

Well if god gave us language we would surely all speak the same one. Secondly his parents/school/culture gave him language, and they got it from their ancestors, so on and so forth, god never gave him language. Now try to imagine anything at all in the world where something similar is not also true about what god gives us!

To be Drui is an active part of life, not life as a whole. As soon as I look at 'druid' as a thing, druidry gets lost in the cauldron of all other things.
So.. in this perspective of what a Druid does, is progressive, always will be and this will always be inclusive in this way.

Druidry is universalism to me [and I think it is generally, I mean look at blakes work [and mine]!] and my whole life. …but yea in that I agree it has to be progressive, there is little point in being regressive and such things rarely last anyways. So what is it to be progressive? Surely it is to be relative to our now knowledge and have religion based on science and secular morality? Christianity is the past, and simply isn’t very well thought out.
I am always trying to make new progressive philosophical assertions, but a pointless thread like this gets more notice.

[Dendrias]

How could advice, help and discussing your path in a controversial manner be pointless? "Discussing" with fully like-minded people can be pointless, or let's say, not fruitful.
This thread partly gets attention from You, Attila.

[Attila]

How could advice, help and discussing your path in a controversial manner be pointless? "Discussing" with fully like-minded people can be pointless, or let's say, not fruitful.

Fruitful for whom; the christians? yet detrimental for druidry itself.

We have discussed it into oblivion, it’s a well known contentious issue and there is an amount of duplicity in terms of a christian agenda [even if they don’t exactly have one [which I doubt]. Not to mention that we are going around in circles repeating ourselves.

Really Christians have no right to be in druidry and especially to be continuously pushing their religion upon us. This is our thing and our time, Christianity can only detract from that ~ I mean, what can it add that we don’t already know [and mostly dislike].

…but yea I best stop posting in threads like this, I should just leave it alone so they can swamp druidry with their religion without opposition.

I know obod needs the money but for druidry generally I would prefer it if there were only a few thousand of us, but ones who truly are druids not Christians. There is little we can do to change the mind of obod admin, but as long as Christians know they are not welcome in druidry generally then I’ve done my job.

[Dendrias]

You're contentiously repeating Yourself with a slice of conspiracy theory. That's odd.