Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

[Ainevar]

I'm not sure how to start this topic. I still feel a bit nutty even putting this up and well confused as well. Last night a friend wrned me to stay clear of a guy I was considering asking out. He said the guy's soul was not human and very evil and dark. Now I have always found the guy otherworldly. I've known him for about a year and my first impression when I looked into his eyes was that he was possiablly somehow linked to something not human. It wasn't good or bad but just something inside me said he wasn't just a person. Well fast forward to sometime between august and october and after him and I whent wandering in the woods I felt rather uncomfortable. Course I'm known for being a bit nervous at random times so I pushed it off. But the feeling screamed get the hell away as fast as my legs could take me. Well last night my friend asked me if I could send a picture of the guy and well my friuend started freaking..My friend has yet to lie to me so I did what was best and decided to steer clear of the guy. My friend said something bout the guy having the soul of a half panther and half wolf. I'm wondering what any of you think on the matter,

[Bartholomew]

A wise old acupuncturist once said to me when I was criticising the character of another.
"That what you find disturbing, frightening or offensive in the other person, is usually a reflection of your own undesirable personality traits".

[Huathe]

Ainevar,

I have no idea of what your religious beliefs are, but you mentioned this person being " dark ". The Bible mentions many accounts of demon possesion in people and I still believe it happens today. While it is true that most can be accounted to medically explainable mental conditions I don't think it can explain away all of them. I believe possession still occurs. This may be what you see.

On reincarnation, I don't know if animals can come back as people. I have heard of people coming back as animals and even plants. While I believe in the possibility of reincarnation I have looked at it as only one coming back as a person, and not from an animal. If animals are capable as coming back as people they may be a lot of " wolves in human clothing " around. I just do not see how this would fit into God's divine plan. Pagans may have other thoughts on this.

Bartholomew, I like your answer. We often see our own undesirabilities in others.

If I have really " bad vibes " about someone else, I usually avoid them.

James

[Selene]

... My friend said something bout the guy having the soul of a half panther and half wolf. I'm wondering what any of you think on the matter,

My (ahem) skeptical nature says that's not possible, but I will readily accept that a person can have a dark and mean-spirited soul. I've known a couple of folks I'd characterize that way and I would not willingly associate with them in any way. Some people say they can see a person's "aura"; I'm not one of those (skepticism again; gets in the way of all sorts of delightful experiences, I'm sure) but I do get "vibes" about people--whether right or wrong, I don't know, but when it happens I heed what my psyche is telling me. If it says, "Get the heck out of here," I git.

However, if somehow your acquaintance really does have the soul of a panther and a wolf, why would that make him evil? There's nothing inherently evil in any animal--panthers and wolves are often revered as spirit guides, after all. Now, I'll accept that the guy may have a predatory nature, but no need to ascribe animal characteristics to account for that...humans do a perfectly good job of preying on one another without needing a shred of feline or canine DNA.

[Ainevar]

Selene..I think maybe those souls could have been through something dark and combined and than we get what I am aquinted with. I myself have a skeptical nature. I am ready to agree from my own experiance with him that there is a possibility that he is not fully human. I look at faces alot because I suck at remembering names and well I tend to focus on the eyes. Like I said my frist impression of him was something different. Who knows.

[DJ Droood]

I'm skeptical that you did.

[Bartholomew]

Thanks Hawthorn-Ent it should have read "that which" incorrect grammar written in a rush. I don't believe that non-human souls can incarnate in a human body. I am skeptical about demonic possession. I think negative and evil entities exist on different planes and I think you can attract them into your energy field if you are doing spiritual work/magic. I know people who have got into trouble with spirits by playing around with ouija boards, that is a story in itself. I have seen and heard things of a very unpleasant nature either in sleep or inbetween sleeping and waking. That could just be my subconcious mind working overtime.
I tried to avoid people I get bad vibes from but it is not always that easy. I would say that human beings have the capacity for great evil all by themselves.

[Jake]

I'm not sure how to start this topic. I still feel a bit nutty even putting this up and well confused as well. Last night a friend wrned me to stay clear of a guy I was considering asking out. He said the guy's soul was not human and very evil and dark. Now I have always found the guy otherworldly. I've known him for about a year and my first impression when I looked into his eyes was that he was possiablly somehow linked to something not human. It wasn't good or bad but just something inside me said he wasn't just a person. Well fast forward to sometime between august and october and after him and I whent wandering in the woods I felt rather uncomfortable. Course I'm known for being a bit nervous at random times so I pushed it off. But the feeling screamed get the hell away as fast as my legs could take me. Well last night my friend asked me if I could send a picture of the guy and well my friuend started freaking..My friend has yet to lie to me so I did what was best and decided to steer clear of the guy. My friend said something bout the guy having the soul of a half panther and half wolf. I'm wondering what any of you think on the matter,

Are you still attracted to him? Have you at any time discussed your feelings with him and, if so, how does he feel?

If your gut tells you this is a person to be avoided then by all means follow your instinct. But I would make sure to examine this feeling first and be as certain as you can be that at root it isn't simply the normal sort of fear or jitters we have when we're around someone to whom we're attracted but whose own feelings about us may not be entirely clear.

Whatever your decision, I would pay little attention to the advice of your friend who, in this instance at least, obviously has let their imagination run away with them. Their reaction sounds emotionally manipulative to me.

Just my two cents.

[kytty]

Hi Ainevar
Did I have a brush with its dark side?
mmm... leaving the animalia issue out as this is subjective. lets look at what you know.

1) you had feeling of uncertainty about your friend
2) your established friend expressed negativity regarding your new friend
3) you felt fear
4) your established friend reinforced that fear
5) you are left unsure

the elephant in the room is in the very question its self and your use of the word its.
my thoughts are that you did experience a dark side.
my question to you is from whom?

[Attila]

There is no dark side that’s just a load of dualistic nonsense, spirit is the base nature of reality [what reality is] and is thence universal and not divided in two. Where there is ‘evil’ in the world it is of the world [how can spirits with no physical form do harm?], when we look at why people can be evil there are always worldly reasons. One may perceive a ‘look’ of evil in someone and it probably does have some basis, as this is usually simply a way for the mind to visualise that there is something different going on in the mind of another. Perhaps if you find out what that ‘something’ is you can help him deal with it ~ not usually an easy task, but unless this chap has actually done something really bad that you know of, then maybe there isn’t anything solid there. If he has done ‘evil’ things then he has given into darker impulses than I guess all humans have but most of us don’t actually act upon, it is that weakness which is dangerous because the chances are if he has given in before and you see a darkness in his eyes, then he will do it again ~ and you don’t want to be involved in that.

On the other hand he may just have a deeply earthy spirit or an animal spirit connection which can appear as a darkness, neither of which makes him less human.

On an atheist note [always worth taking into consideration], a brain is a brain it is very similar in everyone, it is impossible to be anything but human unless you literally change the DNA of someone.

[Merlyn]

Hi Ainevar
All above: good advice,
You can reason away what you feel, however you still feel it.
Best to realize what your heart, gut and all are telling you. The mind is lame by comparison to how your body reacts, so I would suggest clarity.
Exactly what: evil, possession, animal spirits or any other sort of reasoning is only representative of what is really going on. These and many religious justifications, symbols and all are how we often cope (reason) with the deeper realms.

Might be best to take a bit of quiet time, allow your mind to rest and hear what your feelings have to say.

In light,
Merlyn

[Attila]

Exactly what: evil, possession, animal spirits or any other sort of reasoning is only representative of what is really going on. These and many religious justifications, symbols and all are how we often cope (reason) with the deeper realms.

Whatever ‘dark forces’ are, their effect is purely causal ~ can you think of a single example where such causality can be shown? I doubt it because that would prove the otherworld exists. What I am saying is that the idea of dark forces >in the world< are delusional - if you’ll forgive me saying so, and at most can only have an effect on the mental level ~ if one lets them. To go full circle, obviously once of the mind they can then take effect in the world through our actions, and in this they then become causal!

As far as I can tell I have yet to see where such forces are not of the world*, there are always real world reasons why people change and do evil things. Philosophically I think it better to keep what is of the world to the world where possible, hence dark forces should be ruled out until every other path has been trod.

*awens can derive from minds singular and collective as they can from situations coincidence and historical forces etc. in fact I think this is a major area of druidic study, most of which is posative and the negative is studied only to understand how these things operate, just like a psychologist would. As far as I can tell primal awens and spiritual forces, winds etc are entirely natural and thence not ’evil’, it is only after they enter the world and become manipulated/interpreted that they can become destructive or of other negative composition.

[Arth Frown]

Visions should not be taken literally. When your friend said he had a spirit of a Wolf and a Panther that could mean he has two spirits. Both a Wolf and Panther are predators, the Wolf being masculine and Panther being feminine.

Ainevar what does your gut feeling tell you about this Man?

It might be a good idea to get to know him a bit more, in a group not just the two of you.

[lavouivre]

When I read that you described him as non-human in his eyes I was thinking seriel killer!!
Don't go with him alone in the woods!!

However, think back carefully again. Did you begin to feel fear after your friend told you to stay away from that guy or before? Did you get the feeling he was non-human from first sight or after discussing this with your friend? There is such thing as catching someone else's fears...

I do believe that evil comes from ourselves, not from a god, satan or an animal spirit, not from the otherworld. For me, evil has its source in us, in our fears, in what we don't know. But I am no expert, just my own opinion.
I do believe in sickness too though, in tortured minds, in serial killers and in madness, schyzophrenia etc.
And I do believe that some people have suffered things that they might not want to share with others and change the look on their faces too, giving them dead looks, melancholy looks, sad looks, angry looks.

Try to know him better within a group of friends, not alone. But if you are too uncomfortable, I also believe in chemistry between people and in innate sympathies or antipathies. So don't force it if you really feel uncomfortable and scared...

[Attila]

I do believe that evil comes from ourselves, not from a god, satan or an animal spirit, not from the otherworld. For me, evil has its source in us, in our fears, in what we don't know. But I am no expert, just my own opinion.

Hear, hear, the spirit is much like a mirror and simply reflects what is presented to it. We could call that good/ evil or the circles of abred but it is actually one thing which we divide by our own vision of it, but not by what it actually is. I do believe there is an original druidic understanding in the same vien, then that later it got converted or blended with more christian thinking [thence becoming the circles of abred]. Either that or the circles should be seen as our reflection upon them rather than as actual different circles of spirit.

[Ben Wood]

the spirit is much like a mirror and simply reflects what is presented to it. We could call that good/ evil or the circles of abred but it is actually one thing which we divide by our own vision of it

I know the very profound and mystical sentiment being pointed to here but one cannot deny that there is genuine brokenness, distortion and suffering in the world. Too many people involved in Nature Religion have an overly romantic commitment to non-dualism- glibly declaring there is no good or evil/no light or dark. Yet by saying this sort of thing we diminish the anguish of fellow creatures. We make it somehow ethereal or unreal. Maybe on the ultimate spiritual level there is no good or evil, but I have the sense that if any one of us had survived the atrocities of the last century (Hitler's death-camps, Stalin's massacres or indeed the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki) we might be less likely to dis-guard the language of 'evil '. Maybe the world is inadequate but sometimes its needed to put words around the unspeakable.

Sometimes I feel that many people who proclaim mystical non-dualism do so as a kind of self-indulgent luxury. It's easy to speak in a detached manner about 'the way of things' when we live in peaceful lands, with relatively benign rulers, with steady jobs and regular lives. Its harder to look so circumspectly when we're on the receiving end of intentional humiliation, torture or oppression. All religions worth the name need a vocabulary for the unspeakable or the unacceptable otherwise how are we to know what we really value? I really don't buy this 'we create our own reality' stuff, at least not without extreme qualifications.Could we really tell a mother grieving a lost son through a bullet or a bomb that what has happened isn't evil but simply an error of her perception? Could we really say to her that her broken heart is simply a matter of 'vision'? I think someone who has been deeply wronged has the right to use the vocabulary of evil. I don't believe in Satan or demons but I think on balance I believe in evil, despite the limitations of the concept. I would add however that evil as a term is used too flippantly in our media-drenched tabloid culture.

[MiriamSPia]

Nighttime and shadows both encourage fears and distorted perception. It is possible that the man was seen incorrectly. However, the men who have harmed me the most intentionally and directly are both men who I got a bad vibe about. The thing is that I scare easily, and often over react to my perception of power or sexual feeling related perceptions of men, so in both cases I got hurt because I tried to give the guy a chance, hoping I was just paranoid - only to learn the hard way I hadn't been paranoid. So, that's creepy. I agree with all the others who wrote to trust your instinct. At the same time, keep it in perspective: animals flee from my approach out of excessive paranoic fear on an almost daily basis. They're terrified of me.

About that guy: there probably is something animalistic or tying him to animals. His best friend could be a dog. He could have an animal totem. He might have a long history with a metaphor about being "nothing but a horny dog" because he's male and they are a little weird about their own hormonal conditions.

It also depends on your ages and the general milieu. Who is he? You could try safely gathering information. It could be a lot of things and it could be something which has been wildly distorted by fear.

I have noticed that in the light people like to clear away anxiety but its as if there is a rule that: If its dark, its okay to let your imagination conjoin to your fears and no one looks down on you if a shadow and part of a chair suddenly looks like a vampire to you or something pretty crazy, far out, not likely.

[Myrde]

Psh, if he's possesed/demon/dark spirit/whatever, send him my way. I have absolutely NO qualms about binding a demon to MY will. That's power right there. One that I will gladly exploit. *grins*

When it comes right down to it, I don't believe there really is such a thing as good or evil. If Evil trully does exist, than it only lies within the hearts of Men, for we only seem to act with such useless cruelty. Therefor, I will argue there is no good or evil, except by human making. Everything else is just Nature. And Nature is Grey. The same waves that feed me with fish may one day drag my body into the undertow. The rain that waters my crops may one day flood my home.

Not exactly non-dualism, but a reasonable counter.

But all in all, the keys words here are "Stranger; Danger". If he seems like he could be a threat, stay cautious around him. Don't let your gaurd down.

[ideagirl]

It wasn't good or bad but just something inside me said he wasn't just a person. Well fast forward to sometime between august and october and after him and I whent wandering in the woods I felt rather uncomfortable. Course I'm known for being a bit nervous at random times so I pushed it off. But the feeling screamed get the hell away as fast as my legs could take me.

That's the most important part of your post. You could suggest any number of explanations about WHY he made you feel that way--his spirit is part panther! He's possessed by a demon! etc.--and I have no idea how or if you could verify that your explanation was correct. But the explanation doesn't matter. What matters is THAT he made your body want to get the hell away from him as fast as you could, not WHY his spirit is such that he made your body want to get away.

Listen to your body. When it comes to keeping you safe, it is much smarter than your conscious mind. Listening to my body--and literally bursting into a run when it told me to--saved me from gang rape (and potentially murder) twice when I was a teenager. Do not talk yourself out of feelings like that; just let your body do what it wants to do. The time when I didn't listen to my body, at the age of 20, I didn't end up getting raped but I did end up embroiled in a really bad relationship that was emotionally and mildly physically abusive and left me hurting for a long time. My body knew the guy was bad, but I talked myself out of that knowledge.

Let your body keep you safe. It's very good at that.

[Muddy Fox]

Agreed. Body instinct, intuition are powerful indicators, body language and the sub-conscious. Dunno, you meet some people that you are attracted to and repulsed by at the same time. You can be picking up subconcious information regarding that person. Maybe they have done bad things in this life or previous lives and that aura is about them like a live wire. Picked up by the sensitive, not noticed by many. They may be reformed characters with a spiritually life changing experience, but evil deeds carry a certain emanation and that emanation will follow them. You could pick that emanation up but still see the person for who they are and still be attracted to them. Listen to yourself. Stay safe.