Problem with Rats

[Blyth]

Sorry if this is rather a silly question but I have only recently joined OBOD so I do not know whether this topic has come up before.
Rats have started to appear from under our garden shed even in day time. They climb up the fencing and on to the bird feeder. Perhaps if I stop feeding the birds, they will eventually locate elsewhere. It is against my beliefs to use poison or call the Council pest control man. Our garden is only pocket-size so they are very close to our bungalow. Any suggestions please? Many thanks

[katie bridgewater]

Rats are extremely clever and will investigate any possibility for food. They can tunnel and climb and have powers of deduction, and can learn your routines and habits. They can also work out how to access things you think are not in their reach. Their teeth are harder than most substances they will need to eat through to get at food. It is not good to have them living in the same space as you because they carry disease fatal to humans and you have to outwit them if you won't out and out kill them. Once here, they dug a 20' tunnel network which came up inside a concrete stable building under a galvanised steel feed bin. They ate through the bottom of the bin and smuggled carrots out of the bin for several weeks before anyone realised the carrots were going down a bit faster than usual and we emptied the bin to see what was going on!

Rats are motivated by food and shelter. You will need to stop providing them with ANYTHING to eat. Stop feeding the birds, don't make compost outside, keep rubbish in metal dustbins if it's outside, don't leave crumbs or food on the ground if you eat outside. If you are lucky, and they can find other sources of more accessible food, then the majority of them will probably relocate if they can, although there is no guarantee that they won't live in your garden and just commute.

We have a lot of rats here on the farm where we live. They come from the neighbouring farm which has stores of animal feed and open feeders for sheep in the fields. There is an element of accepting the rat worldview, and tolerating their equal right to existence as other-than-human beings. And then there is the need not to be exposed to nasty diseases, harrassment and invasion.

It's a difficult balance to strike, and we have tried many approaches over the years. But at the end of the day, while I respect their rat-ness, I want them to be rats elsewhere! It is no less spiritual to confront your natural enemies, and drive them out if they bring harm. We don't use poison because of the risk to other animals on the farm, especially the cats here, who have no spiritual dilemmas about killing rats, thank goodness!

[Blyth]

Thank you, Kate, for taking the time to give me so much information. We have now decided not to put out any more feed for the birds [unless, of course, the snow returns]. Our rubbish is in "wheelie bins" which have not yet been attacked and we will stop making compost outside.
As you say, it is difficult to strike the right balance. It seemed a lot easier when we lived in a more rural area with a larger garden. However, I am keeping my fingers crossed that the present family of rats will relocate when they find that the Takeaway has closed.
Again, thank you for your help which I very much appreciate.

[DJ Droood]

I heard a little piece on the news last night that there are rats at #10 Downing and the PM aquired a cat.

[Blyth]

It's a great pity I can't have a cat or two. They may well solve the problem.

[mantis]

As a former professional pest controller,if the food source is taken away,you may be lucky and spring takes them away to breed.
If you can still smell that ratty smell,droppings,trails and greesy marks in corners and where they climb then sadly you will need to take serious action.If not poison,then you need proper traps,either cage or better still fenn mk 2's.
If you know where they live then smoke,water or ferrets to bolt to terriers(which is legal).As regards to cats,they are good at young rat but not at wily adults.

[Corwen]

Something I have found works in persuading them to move on (in addition to denying them food) is harassment. By this I mean using bricks to block their access to the underneath of your shed, then when they tunnel out blocking their tunnels. Do this every morning. Block their runs, routes under fences etc, especially those they use to go foraging, with stuff they don't like to dig through (wood ash, gravel, expanding foam) or can't dig through. Make a noise every time you pass the shed (bang on it) because they don't like noise. Hopefully they will go and find somewhere more peaceful.

I have tried to use traps but with little success, they seem able to remove the bait from them, even the cage sort, so the best are those with a scented 'bait' that is actually part of the trap. Important to put these in a box or in a really out of the way place (push them under the shed with a stick, leaving a string attached to pull them out by) in case a curious cat reaches into where you have put them and sets them off.

[wyeuro]

i agree with kate's suggestion that the rat population can be tolerated. i see ours as i see any other small furred mammal, as a legitimate part of the ecology of our farm. if they get too numerous, they start practically giving themselves to the dog or cats, or they attract some other predator to reduce numbers. they are attractive animals if you see them through the eyes if not of love, at least debriefed from hatred and disgust.

it's fairly easy to design rat-proof bird feeders, and all other food sources can be kept away from rats. if they get too investigative, they may be experiencing famine, and can be kept from chewing through cupboards and plastic containers by simply giving them what they want where you'd rather they were. in other words, simply feed them a little of whatever they're after and they won't invade and contaminate your whole supply.

this doesn't completely eliminate their nuisance value, but it does reduce it a lot. trying to eliminate them is a very fraught business. befriending them males them sort of peaceful, which does reduce the anxiety concerning them.
wy

[mantis]

Corwen,that is called "new object syndrome",rats know the layout of there area perfect.So if omething appears in there runs.IT sends a warning,that includes trap until they get use to the object.Scent is the issue for traps not working.
As for harassment dogs do the trick better than cats.
As for living rats be,rats tick all the three "D's":-Disease,damage and distress.Rats carry many disease's including a couple of deadly ones.I may sound hard,but I know of two people who have died from Lepo(yellow fever),and seen the damage rats cause to grain etc.

[Blyth]

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I am most appreciative.
One thing I didn't think of previously as a deterrent was to let my terrier [parson russell] out into the back garden. I brought her in recently because she was making such a hullabaloo barking and digging and I was afraid she would catch a disease from the rats. However as she cannot get that close to the rats because of fencing, I intend go out with her to supervise the situation.
At the risk of incurring wrath, I saw another rat this afternoon. It looked so perfect and so beautiful and my wish is not to harm the family if I can possibly move them on. I feel it was my fault for enticing them in the first place - rather like seagulls.
Oh well, thank you all again very much.

[mantis]

If the russell has had its jabs,its safer than you or I.Russells are born ratters.Remember rats breed roughly every two months if not more.

[wyeuro]

yes, when i said 'the dog', it was our jack russell terrier -fox terrier cross i had in mind. one in dozen cats will be a good ratter, but you can't go past a good terrier.

[mantis]

I've got a few terriers.Our record catch is 407.

[bioai]

If you can find or know someone with Ferrets, then try to get some droppings or poo/pee ridden bedding and spread that around where the rats are, I am told that will make them move on as they see them as a predator. Worth a go and doesn't actually harm them. I love rats so I can empaphise with your not wanting to hurt them, I have pet rats and they are so adorable and loving, but the wild ones are not the same, they carry over 50 deadly diseases and you really do need to put your own safety/health first.
The gestation period of rats actually varies slightly depending on geography/species (21-28 days), but the average is 22days. What's more is, they can conceive again almost instantly, and the litter can conceive from about 5 weeks old. I have known breeders have litters of 18 also, so if you do the maths it can get out of hand very quickly. That said, wild litters will likely be smaller, probably between 6 and 12.
I hope you manage to get hem to move on without havingto harm them, I think you will though with the ideas set out, disturbance etc, removing their food sources and so on. You will have to persist for a little whil though, obviously only the occaional disturbanc ill snd them running and they will come back when all is quiet again. Good luck.

[mantis]

I got ferrets,I could send you some poo in the post.Lol.They use to the say the same about that for moles.But sadly it don't work.Rats will have stoats around there buries but it does'nt put them off.At this time of year a doe would give a ferret a hiding.orry to sound so negative.

[bioai]

Another myth dispelled then