Will they return?

[Twig]

If there's not going to be any smiting, I don't want to go to the Apocalypse.

[DJ Droood]

If there's not going to be any smiting, I don't want to go to the Apocalypse.

Emma Goldman?

btw, my most recent food hoarding behaviour was amassing a fair-sized glass jar full of soybeans...I figured they would keep a long time, be a good source of protein and sprouts...I taught myself to make tofu and soy milk...quite simple actually...like a cool chemistry experiment....the key to End Times survival hoarding is to "store what you use and use what you store" and rotate your supplies, with about 6 months on hand...I could never get into that discipline. And I can't bring myself to eating year old canned beans. (although I suppose I could if I were "left behind".)

Although with the tornadoes and other weird weather events, you never know when your world will be down for a week or two...Red Cross says you should have at least 72 hours of provisions for you and your family.

Make or buy an emergency preparedness kit to sustain your family for 72 hours. By taking some time now to store emergency food, water and other supplies, you can provide for your entire family. Preparing for an emergency can be an activity for the whole family.

http://www.redcross.ca/article.asp?id=34875&tid=025

That would be a good Druid scout project....a druid survival kit.

[Myrde]

Touche! But once again, I see I am causing great confusion by being my metaphorical self. Are you claiming that the spark of life, the very essence of existence originated from these single cell organisms?

I know you're not, but please don't take my words so increadibly literal. And don't assume I'm so ignorant that I am unfamiliar with our Earth and Sun's alnost five billion year history, or that of our Universe's 15 billion year one. Imagine, every particle in the universe being created in under 3 minutes, then cooling down for another three hundred thousand... but time, of course, is beautifully relative. Matter and Anti-matter... there's somethig beautiful how there's a negative opposite to the whole of reality, and when brought together, they cease existing all together.

Hehe... as far as the Lord and Lady... well, what would you call them then? With a human being with a finite grasp and understanding of the Universe and World around me, I have to call them something. I don't claim to know what they look like, or how they act, or even their true names. They have many. There names are things such as a crimson sunset, a warm spring breeze, the gentle kiss of a flower's petal, the embrace of a dear friend, the roar of the ocean, the feeling of sandy grains against your toes as you run along the shoreline, the breath of wind that rustles the leaves, a layer of freshly fallen untouched snow on a cloudy mooning, the moonflower opening it's lips it's namesake and the chirping of birds calling to each other in the early morn. Each of these, and more, are the names of the Lord and Lady.

How can I possibly comprehend all of them, and do I know which is the right one to call them by, or if all of them are the right one to call them by, or none at all? As a human, I need something to identify them with, and have some sort of feeble grasp and understanding of them. The Earth beneath my feet, the wind in my hair, and the Sun's kiss on my face is enough to know they're there. I could just as easily call them Ouranous and Gaia, the God and Goddess, Cerruenos and Arianhrod, Osiris and Isis. Which ever image of them I feel closest too, or helps me to put into frame of mind who they are.

It's that and much, much more. What it is not is a guy in a chariot racing across the sky.

Lol! Thoroughly agreed there! Science helps us understand our world, but should be used as a tool to help our knowledge of Life and the world around us. And while you and I (and let's face, everyone who hasnt been living in a hole for the past 200 years) know that the Sun isn't Helios, or Horus, or Balor's eye... to merely think of it as a ball of hot plasma is so wrong. For instance, the Sun has a heart beat... its actually currents of gas and it's magnetic field... but even still... just the idea of it is so... romantic...

Strange to think that out of the billions and billions of stars... we find life here. And strange that out of the planets we have discovered, Earth seems like the only one with tectonic shifts... the Earth itself is alive in an otherwise dead solar system...

I am absolutely loving this conversation!!! Anything that let's me sink my teeth into topic and apply what I know. XD Thank-you for respecting my beliefs, and I hope that I have shown due respect to yours. The philosophers of ancient Athens would have proud of this conversation. :3

[Jake]

If there's not going to be any smiting, I don't want to go to the Apocalypse.

Emma Goldman?

btw, my most recent food hoarding behaviour was amassing a fair-sized glass jar full of soybeans...I figured they would keep a long time, be a good source of protein and sprouts...I taught myself to make tofu and soy milk...quite simple actually...like a cool chemistry experiment....the key to End Times survival hoarding is to "store what you use and use what you store" and rotate your supplies, with about 6 months on hand...I could never get into that discipline. And I can't bring myself to eating year old canned beans. (although I suppose I could if I were "left behind".)

Hahaaa! You two are cracking me up! It reminds me of a roommate I had years ago. When she moved in I swear half her luggage consisted of canned food for Armageddon. She must have had 35-50 cans of kidney beans and an equal number of other assorted vegetables which she proceeded to fill the pantry with, all stacked in neat little pyramids.

When I asked her what was up she said, "I was raised a Mormon." Her tone and facial expression indicated that this fact alone should serve as an adequate explanation so I didn't pursue it any further.

[Jake]

Are you claiming that the spark of life, the very essence of existence originated from these single cell organisms?

No. Only that they are the first, still dominant, and those upon whom all others depend for their existence. Which is I think sufficient to call them "the basis."

And don't assume I'm so ignorant that I am unfamiliar with our Earth and Sun's alnost five billion year history, or that of our Universe's 15 billion year one.

Not at all. But I think we both agree that, as you stated earlier, there's knowing something as facts and figures and then there's understanding the implications and the awesomeness behind all the numbers.

Hehe... as far as the Lord and Lady... well, what would you call them then?

I call them inventions of Margaret Murray.

With a human being with a finite grasp and understanding of the Universe and World around me, I have to call them something.

Why?

I don't claim to know what they look like, or how they act, or even their true names. They have many. There names are things such as a crimson sunset, a warm spring breeze, the gentle kiss of a flower's petal, the embrace of a dear friend, the roar of the ocean, the feeling of sandy grains against your toes as you run along the shoreline, the breath of wind that rustles the leaves, a layer of freshly fallen untouched snow on a cloudy mooning, the moonflower opening it's lips it's namesake and the chirping of birds calling to each other in the early morn. Each of these, and more, are the names of the Lord and Lady.

That's beautiful - really truly gorgeous and moving. I love the sentiment, even if I don't agree with the last sentence.

The Earth beneath my feet, the wind in my hair, and the Sun's kiss on my face is enough to know they're there.

For me it's enough to call these things the earth, the wind and the sun. In fact it's so much more than enough that I can't imagine how imputing them to the touch of gods could possibly make them sweeter.

I am absolutely loving this conversation!!! Anything that let's me sink my teeth into topic and apply what I know. XD Thank-you for respecting my beliefs, and I hope that I have shown due respect to yours. The philosophers of ancient Athens would have proud of this conversation. :3

I'm enjoying talking to you too, but I think the bit about the Athenians might be overstating things a little.

[treegod]

I think treegod's right about the necessary radical paradigm shift. But does this happen before or after the radical technological shift and the ensuing social and political meltdown?

Now. There's no time like the present

[DaRC]

It's that and much, much more. What it is not is a guy in a chariot racing across the sky.

Yep her names Sunna and she's a girl

As to the Apocalypse we have a plan:
1) find the nearest military base and obtain some armoured vehicles and weapons
2) pick up supplies, seeds and tools
3) travel to the nearest reasonable sized island (might need a ferry first) and ensure all nasties (e.g. zombies, army of the undead, triffids, angels/devils, fomorians etc...) are removed. I was thinking the Isle of Wight for us UK southerners.
4) Set up an eco based farming community
Or have we
a) too much time on our hands at work,
b) seen far too many apocalypse films/series (such as the Walking Dead)

More seriously the trouble with human nature is that I think it's essentially conservative (not the small c), reactive and not keen on radical paradigm shifts. It's the philosophical argument between revolution vs evolution.
I must admit to preferring evolution - revolution is often hijacked by the power mad autocrats and religious fanatics such as the Muggletonians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muggletonianism
however, sadly, our social human nature often means that revolution has to be enforced for change to happen.

With regards to microbes I must admit that I am uncertain whether they exists to enable our existence or vice versa, that's the problem with complex ecological symbiosis.

Stockpiling for the future - I tend to have a couple of weeks supplies in at any one time. Although teenage boys can decimate my larder faster then biblical locusts.

[Huathe]

Hehe... as far as the Lord and Lady... well, what would you call them then? With a human being with a finite grasp and understanding of the Universe and World around me, I have to call them something. I don't claim to know what they look like, or how they act, or even their true names. They have many. There names are things such as a crimson sunset, a warm spring breeze, the gentle kiss of a flower's petal, the embrace of a dear friend, the roar of the ocean, the feeling of sandy grains against your toes as you run along the shoreline, the breath of wind that rustles the leaves, a layer of freshly fallen untouched snow on a cloudy mooning, the moonflower opening it's lips it's namesake and the chirping of birds calling to each other in the early morn. Each of these, and more, are the names of the Lord and Lady.

How can I possibly comprehend all of them, and do I know which is the right one to call them by, or if all of them are the right one to call them by, or none at all? As a human, I need something to identify them with, and have some sort of feeble grasp and understanding of them. The Earth beneath my feet, the wind in my hair, and the Sun's kiss on my face is enough to know they're there. I could just as easily call them Ouranous and Gaia, the God and Goddess, Cerruenos and Arianhrod, Osiris and Isis. Which ever image of them I feel closest too, or helps me to put into frame of mind who they are.

- Myrde


Myrde, Very sentimental and I love what you have said here. God is in everything you see. He is the creator and shaper of the natural world, Gaia or Dana. I think us humans instinctively need a deity to identify with. I feel atheistism is learned. No offense is intended to any atheists here.

For me God and Dana are the Lord and Lady.

[DJ Droood]

As to the Apocalypse we have a plan:
1) find the nearest military base and obtain some armoured vehicles and weapons
2) pick up supplies, seeds and tools
3) travel to the nearest reasonable sized island (might need a ferry first) and ensure all nasties (e.g. zombies, army of the undead, triffids, angels/devils, fomorians etc...) are removed. I was thinking the Isle of Wight for us UK southerners.
4) Set up an eco based farming community

Sounds a bit like my family history....Highland Clearanaces/Apocalypse...same difference.....

[Myrde]

.............OH EFF IT ALL!!! GAAAAAAAHHHH!!!



I spent an hour writing that last post and this site logs me off for "inactivity"!!!!

Dear lord I had an awesome response to Jake and to DaRC's uber-faulty apocolypse plan! It was so so so so goood! Raaaaagh!

I need to go calm down. I don' think I have the heart to rewrite all of that...

[Huathe]

Myrde,

I hate when that happens! On lengthy posts like that I often copy it to the computer's clipboard where I can paste it back in if the site times out. I am one who always learns the hard way!

[Jake]

I think treegod's right about the necessary radical paradigm shift. But does this happen before or after the radical technological shift and the ensuing social and political meltdown?

Now. There's no time like the present

Right on.

I must admit to preferring evolution - revolution is often hijacked by the power mad autocrats and religious fanatics such as the Muggletonians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muggletonianism

So true. But I have to admit those Muggletonians sound like a fun bunch...

I spent an hour writing that last post and this site logs me off for "inactivity"!!!!

Ah that sucks. Are you using IE? In Firefox you can just hit the back button and your post is still there.

I feel atheistism is learned.

So is using the toilet.

[Huathe]

Jake Wrote:

So is using the toilet.

Ah, Jake. That is so true!

[Twig]

DJ: Yes, Emma Goldman. And I am quite ready for a revolution. Good behavior doesn't seem to be working.

[Frog]

Interesting post.

So here's my take: the Lord and Lady are already here. Whether they are happy with what we are doing - well, I think we know the answer, but like most children we will still keep our bedrooms in a state of huge disrepair. And like all parents, they are waiting for us to move on to wherever else we go to (university/moon) so they can get on with the redecorating.

But I have a question. If we make the assumption (based on what limited knowledge we have of the animal kingdom) that the animal has enough knowledge to note when it's hungry and enough knowledge to work together to kill; has it really enough knowledge to know that as it works its way across a field it should stop at a certain point so the plants can survive? And if we say that it doesn't, but it's really just numbers of animals aren't enough then isn't that just time before the animal kingdom destroy the land? I'm not saying it's right, or that we are in anyway not doing a bang-up job of destroying this planet - just arguing the philosophical point that if the animals ruled the world it wouldn't end up in a similar place.

[reilz81]

The biggiest difference between animals and humans in my opinion is an animal will only take what it needs, and maybe what its family needs aswell. Where as humans we are hoarders, we take more then what we need just incase, and sometimes so another cant have the thing. Wars have been waged over the human greed to always want the grass on the other side of the fence.

[Jake]

The biggiest difference between animals and humans

We are animals.

in my opinion is an animal will only take what it needs, and maybe what its family needs aswell. Where as humans we are hoarders, we take more then what we need just incase, and sometimes so another cant have the thing.

Many, many other animal species hoard. And they steal from each other as well.

Wars have been waged over the human greed to always want the grass on the other side of the fence.

This is fairly typical behavior among other primates as well. So is cannibalistic infanticide, which we generally don't engage in.

[treegod]

But I have a question. If we make the assumption (based on what limited knowledge we have of the animal kingdom) that the animal has enough knowledge to note when it's hungry and enough knowledge to work together to kill; has it really enough knowledge to know that as it works its way across a field it should stop at a certain point so the plants can survive? And if we say that it doesn't, but it's really just numbers of animals aren't enough then isn't that just time before the animal kingdom destroy the land? I'm not saying it's right, or that we are in anyway not doing a bang-up job of destroying this planet - just arguing the philosophical point that if the animals ruled the world it wouldn't end up in a similar place.

I think mostr animals aren't aware enough of their environments to know when and how to limit themselves. Usually there are ecological limits in place, the ecosystem itself keeps them in chack and controlled. (I remember reading about a wolf introduction where river banks that were grazed bare weren't grazed so much and trees could grow as the wolves used the areas for ambush)

Humans, having a huge capacity for imagination, have managed to find "loopholes" in these environmental limits. Usually there are self-regulating systems in place that keep a species in check and in harmony with their environment (not just imposed from the external environment but also integrated into their genetics). At last we are finding the upper limit, on the global scale, of what we can and can't do.

Now that human "ingenuity" has got us into this situation (what amazing technologies, eh?) can our ingenuity get us out? That's what I think of as the "Return". The unconscious self-regulating of Gaia is ever-present and needs no "Return". It's there.

Though I think the "ingenuity" of the past will have to give way to a new igenuity. In the past it was directed solely towards human interests (and even then only a certain class/nation within humanity). This will have to be expanded to include the living earth itself. The way of thinking that go us here won't get us out. That's the Paradigm shift. That's the "Second Coming".

So there are two possible "returns" of the Lord and Lady. One, in unconscious natural processes that will eventually force human populations to become very limited or even extinct. Nature will shed the problem like my chicken dust bathe to get rid of parasites. Two, in conscious neurological processes; imagination, ingenuity, inventiveness etc. The latter is more preferable than the former. The latter also requires work whereas the former has a "wait and see" attitude.

[Nightwolf]

The word "rapture," isn't in the bible. There is a few scriptures that say we will be caught up to meet Jesus in the air. The phrase "caught up" up is said in Greek as "raptus." This is how people came up with "rapture." I don't know where some people get all the damnation and war in the bible. In the book of Genesis it says that God made the world to be lived on and inhabited. Even in the Lord's Prayer it says "thy kingdom come." God will wipe away all the man made trash and establish a perfect world. It says in the bible that the lion will lay down with the lamb and the wolf will eat straw as the ox. I don't believe God would make create something as beautiful as the Earth to just burn it up.

[Huathe]

Nightwolf.

I agree. I do not believe the Earth will be destroyed. Only returned to the Edenlike paradise it was meant to be, with a mankind worthy enough for it and willing to take care of it.

That is the main theme of the Holy Bible. Man's fall from grace and man's return to it. Yes, there is a lot of pain and sin in between but the Paradise Earth will be restored. Man alone certainly won't do it. Man worships money too much as a whole to do that!