The Christian-Druid Path

[Muddy Fox]

Thank you. I'll let you know the outcome in due course.

[Michael C. Page]

Thank you. I'll let you know the outcome in due course.

I'll look forward to it. Thank you for sharing a part of your journey. This part may be difficult (at least it was for me), but I think you are going about it very well. Too often people seem tempted convert or church hop out of anger or discontent or some form of impatience. By taking the path you have chosen, however, you will enable yourself to leave (if that time comes) with a peace that will allow you to forgive and release your burdens with a Full Heart.

BB- Mike

[MiriamSPia]

If I may be so bold, I would advise you to do a little reading on the Christianization of Britain from the Catholic perspective. Although I don't know whether or not it would reconcile you: the advantage of the RC church is that they have documentation about all these phases. There are so many Celtic crosses....It might give you a better idea of who and where you are. I think we tend to take Jesus Christ's work for granted to some degree in Christianized nations but without him - really, he gave some of awesome teachings, even if it was obvious stuff like: be compassionate to your neighbors; don't kill people; forgive each other and ourselves for mistakes and misdeeds, and no blood sacrifices are needed to worship God. I mean that's all so basic - for those of us living after the Christianization of our nations. I would not want to trade in any of that!

[Muddy Fox]

Thank you MiriamSpia. I have no objection to Christianity or the teachings of Christ, I was a Christian long before I set foot in a church. I am still in fact a Christian, I have decided to leave The Roman Catholic Church.
I know some of the history thanks and quite a bit more from real life, real living relatives who lived during the times of hell fire and punishment Catholicism, we go back quite a few far generations in fact. My grandfather at one time considered becoming a Monk.
And I did go and study Catholicism for some time, structured lessons in a group of traditional questioning their own faith and wanna be new Catholics.
I've read a fair amount of stuff to be honest and I don't think there is much that is missing. I've looked into all sorts, The Gnostic Gospels, The Gospel of Mary Magdalene. Theories about Jesus studying in Scotland during his lost years, theories about The Cathars going from France to Ireland and the sacred thing sumggled across the borders was a blood relative of Christs. And then their was Joseph of Arimathea in Glastonbury and some claim to know the what or whereabouts of the grail. And then there is the Turin Shroud, I saw copy of that recently. I've looked into spiritualism and the Ascended Masters who claim that Christ is with them as well, then there is Kabbalah and finally a thing I had not heard before was a Buddhist Monk said that they had proven records that Christ studied with them during the lost years.
I have a problem with the Catholic Church itself and The Pope and this present Pope became the Pope after I entered the church and he seems to have brought a few issues up to put it mildly.
An organised church can have its good and bad I suppose, all working for the common good,brothers and sisters in Christ, that loving sharing bond, which so far has eluded me. I have encountered elitist oppressive attitudes and clickiness to go along with all the rules and regulations and soon you won't be able to eat meat on a Friday.
But there is hope for me, because for the first time in my life I have attended an Anglican Church and I am overwhelmed by the open acceptance and friendliness of all who attend this particulr church. People even ask you to sit next to them if you are sitting by yourself, How nice is that? And I couldn't give a stuff if I am breaking Catholic rules by taking communion in another church, because apparently we are not allowed to do that, but I don't care. So I have e-mailed the Bishop with my request and sent a copy to the local priests who have telephoned me immediately to see what the problem is, or not. But then I have attended that Catholic Church for over 6 years week in and week out, then I dropped out for a couple of months and nobody cared. No concern, no telephone calls nothing. Tell a lie there was a mistaken text for someone else who to my knowledge stopped attending that church two years ago but the faithful have kept in touch with her to enquire after her father's health.
I am a single parent of four daughters I have had no enquiries about me or them. If I remember rightly when I was being targetted by the faithful with slander and malicious gossip one of my daughters was ill in hospital with a serious blood condition, which those doing the gossiping and slandering were well aware of. Did they care? No. Have they ever asked if she made a recovery because at the time I thought she had leukemia and was worried sick. But no nothing. So anyway it is just the Roman Catholic church I think with its backward thinking and bigotry that I am leaving. I 'd like to say swivel on this and kiss my arse, but that is childish and unchristian and not very mature but it does make one feel better about situation.

[MiriamSPia]

Thank you MiriamSpia. I have no objection to Christianity or the teachings of Christ, I was a Christian long before I set foot in a church. I am still in fact a Christian, I have decided to leave The Roman Catholic Church.
I know some of the history thanks and quite a bit more from real life, real living relatives who lived during the times of hell fire and punishment Catholicism, we go back quite a few far generations in fact. My grandfather at one time considered becoming a Monk.
And I did go and study Catholicism for some time, structured lessons in a group of traditional questioning their own faith and wanna be new Catholics.
I've read a fair amount of stuff to be honest and I don't think there is much that is missing. I've looked into all sorts, The Gnostic Gospels, The Gospel of Mary Magdalene. Theories about Jesus studying in Scotland during his lost years, theories about The Cathars going from France to Ireland and the sacred thing sumggled across the borders was a blood relative of Christs. And then their was Joseph of Arimathea in Glastonbury and some claim to know the what or whereabouts of the grail. And then there is the Turin Shroud, I saw copy of that recently. I've looked into spiritualism and the Ascended Masters who claim that Christ is with them as well, then there is Kabbalah and finally a thing I had not heard before was a Buddhist Monk said that they had proven records that Christ studied with them during the lost years.
I have a problem with the Catholic Church itself and The Pope and this present Pope became the Pope after I entered the church and he seems to have brought a few issues up to put it mildly.
An organised church can have its good and bad I suppose, all working for the common good,brothers and sisters in Christ, that loving sharing bond, which so far has eluded me. I have encountered elitist oppressive attitudes and clickiness to go along with all the rules and regulations and soon you won't be able to eat meat on a Friday.
But there is hope for me, because for the first time in my life I have attended an Anglican Church and I am overwhelmed by the open acceptance and friendliness of all who attend this particulr church. People even ask you to sit next to them if you are sitting by yourself, How nice is that? And I couldn't give a stuff if I am breaking Catholic rules by taking communion in another church, because apparently we are not allowed to do that, but I don't care. So I have e-mailed the Bishop with my request and sent a copy to the local priests who have telephoned me immediately to see what the problem is, or not. But then I have attended that Catholic Church for over 6 years week in and week out, then I dropped out for a couple of months and nobody cared. No concern, no telephone calls nothing. Tell a lie there was a mistaken text for someone else who to my knowledge stopped attending that church two years ago but the faithful have kept in touch with her to enquire after her father's health.
I am a single parent of four daughters I have had no enquiries about me or them. If I remember rightly when I was being targetted by the faithful with slander and malicious gossip one of my daughters was ill in hospital with a serious blood condition, which those doing the gossiping and slandering were well aware of. Did they care? No. Have they ever asked if she made a recovery because at the time I thought she had leukemia and was worried sick. But no nothing. So anyway it is just the Roman Catholic church I think with its backward thinking and bigotry that I am leaving. I 'd like to say swivel on this and kiss my arse, but that is childish and unchristian and not very mature but it does make one feel better about situation.

Wow, Angelique - a real time reply! How nice. Well, my own bias is Unitarian Universalist - trying to be Protestant in a denomination where half the people look faint if one says, "I believe in God" - even though we're at church. Just so you know: I don't blame you at all for being unhappy in one congregation and being happy to find one in which you feel much more welcome. I just read something last week in UUWorld magazine how that can happen to people within the same denomination. Like - that congregation wasn't the right neighborhood for you or something - sad, but true.

Meanwhile, I would not know about Catholicism. I am just glad that most of my anti-Catholic prejudice has been eroded thanks to reading The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church from 2008 or so. I have been to 1 Catholic rite so far in my life. I lived next to an RC church. I've never hated the Catholics themselves as a group, don't misunderstand, but I was raised in a Protestant nation amongst Protestants. Most of the experience I had with Catholics was people who showed up in my church because of having had a bad experience with Catholicism. So, I really didn't know much about what the happy RCs are like, but I was told to 'fear them' and to assume they would probably assume I'm going to Hell at the end of the day if only because I am not RC and was not even baptised by them or any of that. So, I really wouldn't know. I read the Pope's resume recently and was relatively impressed actually. I don't expect you to always agree with the man, but from what I read he is really "on the up and up" - sincere, devout, a true believer, really serving the cause with great devotion. So, that's good. Protestantism isn't even structured like that, so there's not even anyone like that representing the cause.

Druidry - well, hope that you enjoy it. I came to it because I am the type of person who always wanted to be Dr. Doolittle and they don't teach "how to chat with trees" at my church.

[Muddy Fox]

It appears that when you e-mail a Bishop or a priest with a request to be removed from a baptismal register, they either don't recieve it, or they ignore it. Either way I' m still waiting......

[Muddy Fox]

I have been experiencing some synchronistic events again this week. A major one is to do with Gnostic Christianity. I am associated with a lovely gnostic reverand in America, who is the director/founder of a gnostic research institute, which would appeal to all you Druid skeptics becuase he focuses on finding truth through reason and science and spirituality. And he is a nice man and a fine artist, I will find a link for him and post it here.

[treegod]

It appears that when you e-mail a Bishop or a priest with a request to be removed from a baptismal register, they either don't recieve it, or they ignore it. Either way I' m still waiting......

Here in Spain they have some taxes set aside for the Church according to how many Spanish Citizens are members of the Church. To say you are no longer Catholic, and thus stopping your taxes going to the Church, you have to go for an interview with a bishop (I know one person that went through this). But some people don't bother with this, it's too much trouble.

In the end the Church carry on receiving money which, by principal, they shouldn't be receiving.

Hope it goes ok for you (eventually)

[MiriamSPia]

To me this is strange, what you are going through. Its best to abide by your conscience whenever you can.

[JohnPaulPatton]

It appears that when you e-mail a Bishop or a priest with a request to be removed from a baptismal register, they either don't recieve it, or they ignore it. Either way I' m still waiting......

You should get a formal acknowledgement. There is also a formal form you can fill in. There is a Facebook group called 'count me out' which I think has the form online. I know numerous friends who have done it and got acknowledgement. Some had the local bishop wanting to meet (they said no thanks), others just got a letter to confirm. It's technically called 'defection' but them-so is a defection form. Shame on me, still have not got to post mine yet-but will do. Each to their own but it's not an organisation I want to be associated with.

[JohnPaulPatton]

For anyone interested in the Christian-Druid path-I have explored the relationship between Christianity and the Druids in my book 'The Poets Ogam' in looking at the early medieval period. It's fascinating stuff eg Pelegias was in Ireland before Patrick, there are many early gnostic links... and certainly the two paths entwined harmoniously in the beginning.

[Muddy Fox]

Thank you very much JohnPaulPatton. I will investigate all of your links further, very interesting I must say. That is what I like about these Druid forums there are some very creative, helpful, free thinking people, a real pleasure to be here.
I have done something to my laptop regarding internet connections, or spirit is hampering my access at this particular point in time, for some reason, if you can go with that. So my browsing time is severely restricted for now. But I will definitely be looking into your projects, thanks again, as well for the Facebook link. I am just getting to grips with facebook, but it seems to be a useful resource.

[JohnPaulPatton]

Thank you very much JohnPaulPatton. I will investigate all of your links further, very interesting I must say. That is what I like about these Druid forums there are some very creative, helpful, free thinking people, a real pleasure to be here.
I have done something to my laptop regarding internet connections, or spirit is hampering my access at this particular point in time, for some reason, if you can go with that. So my browsing time is severely restricted for now. But I will definitely be looking into your projects, thanks again, as well for the Facebook link. I am just getting to grips with facebook, but it seems to be a useful resource.

Your most welcome!

http://www.countmeout.ie/suspension/

This is their website and it seems the church has recently changed it's defection rules... eh, so you can't defect... the term headless chicken springs to mind...

Ref Christianity and Druidry of course John Minahane's The Christian Druids is a master piece.

[Aoife]

My story:

My roots go back to Ireland on both sides of my family and one side is Catholic and one side is protestant. (Sounds a lot like history, eh?)

My mother raised me protestant and I grew up going to church and being involved with in my youth and I was in every sense of the term a "good Christian" however, once I reached my high school years I started finding out several things about the church that I could not and would not abide.

The first was that Christians believe that other religions are false instead of just another path to enlightenment or indeed, a culture's expression of that divinity we all feel. The second was their stance on homosexuality. I'm not a homosexual but I have friends who are and I didn't appreciate how they would descend in groups upon them like a flock of vultures to "pray the gay away." I believe being homosexual is natural and is not sinful in anyway.

The often vicious attitudes and closed mindedness of the church caused me to leave it. I left still believing in God but my feelings about the fallacy of the church were nearly as strong as my faith in God. My mother raised me to respect and love nature and revere it as something holy. She also taught me to be proud of my Celtic heritage and to remember the wisdom of the stories she would tell me. As I grew into an adult I wanted to find a religion or spirituality that would allow me to practice my reverence for nature without giving up my belief in God.

I am not a druid yet but I am researching it and so far this seems to be exactly what I'm looking for.

[JohnPaulPatton]

I hear you Sister! : ) I am not any sort of Christian myself and was never brought up with it. I was raised with science and nature instead. Yes, attitudes to gays and other religions can be abhorrent. As for 'God' I take the Universe as god, it's both impersonal and yet, it may be, has very much a consciousness and life of it's own... of which we are an intimate part... it may be that we are the sense organs of the Universe... as for Christianity, I think it was part of the magical formula of the last aeon/age...with the original teacher being Lao Tsu, then Buddha, then Christ, then Mohamed...they were all more or less teaching the same thing. The teachings were barely comprehensible to their own direct disciples and went down hill from there for the most part. Christ was a sun-god, his death/resurrection being a symbol of the setting and rising sun-much like the myteries of Osiris on which a lot of it was based via esoteric gnosticism, which came via Egypt to Greece and onwards...well, that's what I think! As for being a Druid... I think the most honest modern statement on Druidry was made by Spinal Tap in their musical masterpiece 'Stonehenge' "the Druids:nobody knows who they were... or... what they were doing" lol What we have today is very much Neo-Druidry (which I love)... as to what qualifys anyone to be a Druid today...that's an 'examinaction' you take for yourself in your own time and perhaps something just between you and the oak

[Michael C. Page]

A very Blessed All Saints and All Souls Days for those walking the Druid/Christian Paths.

[Dathi]

Greetings,
I'm late to this thread, and a bit off topic. But just to mention, I picked up a copy of The Poet's Ogham a couple of weeks ago at Rathcrochan (alleged site of the last documented "real" Druid school).
This is a mighty tome. The most comprehensive text on Ogham I have seen + it has bucket loads of plausable correspondences, some imaginative extrapolations / speculation / interpretation, and an eclectic bunch of other Ogham stuff. Not an easy cover-to-cover read, but a delight to dip in to, and to delve about in. It's available on Lulu in ebook form too.

Well worthwhile!

CFN

Dathi

[JohnPaulPatton]

Greetings,
I'm late to this thread, and a bit off topic. But just to mention, I picked up a copy of The Poet's Ogham a couple of weeks ago at Rathcrochan (alleged site of the last documented "real" Druid school).
This is a mighty tome. The most comprehensive text on Ogham I have seen + it has bucket loads of plausable correspondences, some imaginative extrapolations / speculation / interpretation, and an eclectic bunch of other Ogham stuff. Not an easy cover-to-cover read, but a delight to dip in to, and to delve about in. It's available on Lulu in ebook form too.

Well worthwhile!

CFN

Dathi

Dathi,

Thanks for your kind words about my book-glad you are enjoying it!

[Cajun]

This seems like the right place and my apologies if its not, so I’ll begin...

I grew up in a family of devout Christians and Catholics and has the Christian religion shoved down my throat. I have somewhat been separated from my family's "inner circle" ever since i joined the Free Masons and expressed interest in "New Age" things. They have raised me and constantly telling me the Free Masons are evil and all things "new age" are evil. Now that I’m finishing up my double degree (History and Religion/Philosophy) and starting my own life with my fiancée (who is like minded and had a similar upbringing) and living on our own I’m finally feel that I’m able to venture down my own path of spirituality and discovery without being kept in a "closed box" of Christianity, knowing and seeing what the church fells in appropriate. I've always "secretly" been attracted to Paganism and Druidry. Thus i have started my path in Druidry and have come to a crossroad. They only thing i still believe or think i believe is that there is a God and Satan as well as angels and demons, but that’s it. Everything else i can't fully believe in. So that leads me to my question...

Some followers say druids aren't Satanist because they don't believe in satin or god, while others say druidry is more philosophical so there can be Christian druids. Do i really believe in God and Satan or is this more due to my strict Christian up bringing? I feel that the belief in God and Satan has been imbedded in me at a young age thus not easily broken away from. I don't feel right calling myself a Christian-Druid since i don't believe in everything the Christian religion teaches, just God and Satan which other religions have.... Does Druidry itself, separated from other religions have a belief in a God and Satan?

I know this question must ultimately be answered by me, but i feel listening to other, hopefully others with similar experiences, could help me. I just started studying druidry and I’m sure the answer will become more clear the further my studies progress. This question is really bugging me and just hope someone could give me some words of wisdom or point me in the right direction. The New age/ neo-pagan movement is somewhat nonexistent in my area or very inactive and thus cannot seek out guidance in my local area. Thanks in advance

[Mountainheart]

This seems like the right place and my apologies if its not, so I’ll begin...

I grew up in a family of devout Christians and Catholics and has the Christian religion shoved down my throat. I have somewhat been separated from my family's "inner circle" ever since i joined the Free Masons and expressed interest in "New Age" things. They have raised me and constantly telling me the Free Masons are evil and all things "new age" are evil. Now that I’m finishing up my double degree (History and Religion/Philosophy) and starting my own life with my fiancée (who is like minded and had a similar upbringing) and living on our own I’m finally feel that I’m able to venture down my own path of spirituality and discovery without being kept in a "closed box" of Christianity, knowing and seeing what the church fells in appropriate. I've always "secretly" been attracted to Paganism and Druidry. Thus i have started my path in Druidry and have come to a crossroad. They only thing i still believe or think i believe is that there is a God and Satan as well as angels and demons, but that’s it. Everything else i can't fully believe in. So that leads me to my question...

Some followers say druids aren't Satanist because they don't believe in satin or god, while others say druidry is more philosophical so there can be Christian druids. Do i really believe in God and Satan or is this more due to my strict Christian up bringing? I feel that the belief in God and Satan has been imbedded in me at a young age thus not easily broken away from. I don't feel right calling myself a Christian-Druid since i don't believe in everything the Christian religion teaches, just God and Satan which other religions have.... Does Druidry itself, separated from other religions have a belief in a God and Satan?

I know this question must ultimately be answered by me, but i feel listening to other, hopefully others with similar experiences, could help me. I just started studying druidry and I’m sure the answer will become more clear the further my studies progress. This question is really bugging me and just hope someone could give me some words of wisdom or point me in the right direction. The New age/ neo-pagan movement is somewhat nonexistent in my area or very inactive and thus cannot seek out guidance in my local area. Thanks in advance

Hi Cajun: I've taken a somewhat similar path, having evangelical parents and becoming 'born again' when I was a child. Now I've moved on from Christianity: a simple statement which hides more than a decade of self examination, searching, questioning and challenging. Having said that I haven't moved on from Jesus as a person and as a 'son of God': and still have great respect for his teachings. In terms of 'God' and 'Satan': I don't see either as individual deities but see both as symbols which we use to talk about the mysterious force that floods the cosmos. Whether we experience this force as God or Satan depends on OUR 'relationship' with that force IMO. The Mystery is outside human morality; outside good and evil: it is the personification of the Mystery within human beings which engenders 'God' or 'Satan'.