Argenta wrote:I hope I'm not going too OT...
Noooo! It's interesting and challenging. So, thanks
treegod wrote:My use of karma is to do with social and cultural conditioning. This doesn't take in to account genetics or the potential and actual qualities a baby has. And certainly doesn't mean that they deserve the circumstances they are born to.
Oh, OK. My view of karma is more traditional, ie. the sum total of reactions to all our activities, so it influences a person right down to genetic material, physical and psychological abilities, and whatever else makes us "us".
I think you're right. In general I equate karma with consequences. In a sense everything that exists now is the karma or consequence of the Big Bang, exploding stars and evolution etc etc etc. I've been a bit selective with it, focussing on human consequence. The sort of consequences we can take responsibility for and change, the rest is just nature.
In a sense, it does mean we "deserve" it, but it's an understanding that should be tempered by compassion (it doesn't mean we don't help the person suffering because it's "their karma"), personal responsibility (nobody else is there to blame, no uncaring god, unjust social system, irresponsible parents, or unloving partner) and flexibility (if we've brought it on ourselves by past actions, it doesn't mean we can't change it this time over).
That's a wonderful triad. Yes, yes and yes. I definately don't spend my life saying "I should have been born to different people" or "in a different society". I was born in the situation I was born in, and grew up how I grew up. Now I'm an adult I can recognise that, and accept it. But also being an adult it is my responsibility what I do with it, I have the choice to do things differently or the same if I want.
But what I wonder is why, then, do some kids have the environment in which they can learn and develop, while others are cut at the root?
Consequences. Too many to name. We live in a world of lopsided consequences. Some just, some not. My girlfriend has been raised with katsugen, a Japanese tradition to help liberate the body's autonomous system. She's had that from birth and a very different education from me. But there's more similarities between me and her than me and my sister. I had more-or-less the same education as my sister yet we're very different. Different opportunities, different experiences, exposed to different things in different places at different times. Little details that can snowball to make a big difference later in life.
At birth I believe all people deserve the same opportunities for growth and development but the world isn't like that.
And there are certainly babies who from the start lack these qualities you list, usually due to medical conditions. If it's not karma, what is it?
Consequences. Consequences of living in the universe we live in. Not everything's perfect, not everything goes according to plan. What if now I happen to be sitting in just the spot where a meteorite will land? I don't believe I "deserve" it, like it's some sort of cosmic justice making things even. But it could happen.
Why are some born the way they are? Why are some born with Down's Syndrome? Or physical defects? Why have I got green eyes? Some of these things can't be helped and other can. Parent's lifestyle has an effect on the developing baby, but not always. It might be a karma, but I don' think it's always deserved.
Looking back there is something that Sencha said that has some relevance here.
I don't believe in 'karmic baggage' either. What some call 'karma,' I simply see as the result of natural laws.
Argenta wrote:I think I understand your reasoning -- I feel I've actually gone through at least two such re-programmings so far.
However, I'm not sure you answered my question. Can you rephrase it, please, if it's not too boring a subject?
Hmmm, I think I leapt ahead, not sure if I understood the question properly.
"And when does it stop and they get reactions for their own actions?"
Were you asking how one person can get their own karma rather than it being transferred in an "inheritance"?
BTW, I have a couple of poems that I'll send to you through PM.