Tantra- sexual healing or sacred prostitution?

[Heddwen]

This comes after reading reports of arrests at the Phoenix Goddess Temple for prostitution. One wonders whether 'sexual healing' is a credible form of new ageist healing or if neo tantra is really prostitution masked as sacred...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... othel.html

[Mountainheart]

I don't really understand why paid for sexual services should be such a taboo in most societies. What harm is there if both parties are consenting? Forcing prostitution underground is where most of the problems occur, it seems to me.

David

[Bracken]

Hiya, David.

I'm not sure how much of a reality the 'two consenting adults' argument is when it comes to prostitution. Although I don't have facts and figures to quote at this moment I think that you'll find that this profession has a really high incidence of workers with backgrounds rooted in sexual abuse and drug and alcohol problems, along with other problems like issues with mental health and social deprivation. Also, I can't think of any other profession where those who leave the work are referred to as survivors.

I know this is a really contentious subject, and that there is an overwhelming amount of information from both sides, heaps of which can be found by a quick Google search. I think that the link Heddwen has posted here is a new slant altogether. Even if the people who ran and worked at this temple/brothel are what they say they are, I wonder how appropriate it is in the present day. Is it an anachronism, I wonder, or genuinely healing. On what criteria can this be judged, or monitored? And another thought, even if the sex workers themselves are genuinely spiritual people with a healing intent (I have to admit that my mind boggles a bit even writing that), are the punters in on it?

[Mountainheart]

this profession has a really high incidence of workers with backgrounds rooted in sexual abuse and drug and alcohol problems, along with other problems like issues with mental health and social deprivation. Also, I can't think of any other profession where those who leave the work are referred to as survivors.

Hi Bracken - I agree about those issues; but aren't they more a result of the underground and criminalised nature of prostitution? It's the same with drugs IMO: as soon as an area of activity is made criminal you inevitably create a profitable market for criminals.

[Bracken]

I think I wonder whether, in the event of total decriminalisation or legalisation, people who had another option would voluntarily choose this as a profession. And honestly, I am aware that there are women and men who say they would. I still question it. It's a really complex issue.

In addition, alcohol is legal but still carries a whole host of attendant problems and costs the world an absolute fortune in problem solving measures.

[Just edited that as it occurred to me.]

[Lily]

It's more or less completely legal here, social security premiums and all, still it creates problems, who knows how many of the women are not under the control of a pimp?
What if you were completely independent, maybe at a salon, but you want to leave the profession - maybe you even trained for some other trade but decided prostitution made more money - what are you going to write into your CV?

Selling (?? providing??) services of a sexual nature for spiritual or therapeutic purposes - I really can't fathom the reasons - but why not - if both parties are completely honest.
Then again, how would you get there and make sure they are - another unfathomable process.

There is something called "sexual accompaniment" that was originally instituted for people with a disability (probably mostly mental disabilities) that would allow them to experience sexuality without exploitation or other risks. The service and the required training exist in the german speaking regions and AFAIK in the Netherlands. Apparently this service has now expanded to anyone, especially the elderly, what have you. Why not.

[Heddwen]

A couple of years ago, a well known new age magazine carried several adverts for a 'surrogate partner' at a tantric centre. I wondered then if this was prostitution or not. Yes I agree with 'why not?' to a certain extent although I think these new age therapies need to be regulated because of the risk of abuse...emotional, financial as well as sexual.

[Hennie]

You are right about The Netherlands, LiLy.

As for prostitution, police figures, that 15 % of the prostitutes are really free in what they are doing, leaving 85 % who are somehow under pressure to do this 'job'; large numbers on human-slavery and human-trade in this business, alas.

[Mountainheart]

In addition, alcohol is legal but still carries a whole host of attendant problems and costs the world an absolute fortune in problem solving measures.

[Just edited that as it occurred to me.]

Very true: but surely it is the abuse of alcohol that causes issues: not alcohol itself. People with problems will turn to any way they can to soften the problems or escape temporarily. People need support in dealing with their problems; rather than their emotional prop being banned. IMO.

Good wine is one of the great gifts of nature

[Al Hakim]

It is difficult to discuss the problem wihout prejudices. Most of us believe that prostitution is something bad and sexuality somehow immoral - as the puritan America sees it. Freud showed that sexual activities belong to the human being, too, and any suppression can lead to mental illness. How to solve the conflict in modern society? I don't know. Prostitution remains "paid sex" by definition. But don't you pay for your healer, too? If sexual activities heal someone it might be all right. However, every treatment requires the mutual agreement between healing and suffering party...
Al Hakim

[Huathe]

this profession has a really high incidence of workers with backgrounds rooted in sexual abuse and drug and alcohol problems, along with other problems like issues with mental health and social deprivation. Also, I can't think of any other profession where those who leave the work are referred to as survivors.

Hi Bracken - I agree about those issues; but aren't they more a result of the underground and criminalized nature of prostitution? It's the same with drugs IMO: as soon as an area of activity is made criminal you inevitably create a profitable market for criminals.

Then there is the problem of disease facilitated by so many sexual partners.

[Hennie]

No, diseases are a typically promiscuous youngsters problem; professional sex-workers know better.

[Bracken]

Hennie, I'm not sure about that. Particularly in the porn industry where sex is violence and condoms are rarely used, sex workers suffer greatly from ill health.

[coldcell]

Hennie, I think that is a massive over-generalisation. There are many people with HIV for example, from needle-stick injuries, blood transfusions and so forth. Even using precautions, sexually transmitted diseases can be caught. I think you are opening a rather large can of worms that you should be willing to back up with evidence, to make such a statement.

[Hennie]

According to the statistics of the Dutch health services the diseases are very much due to unsafe and promiscuous behaviour of young people. HIV infections have been getting a larger number over the last couple of years because youths think AIDS is a chronic, treatable disease, instead of deadly illness.In fact over here there is a large campaign running on the use of condoms 'talk about condoms when your pants are still on!', because sexually transmittable diseases are becoming epidemic.

[coldcell]

Which is a little different to your original statement, which sounded quite moralistic. I would like to know which a little more about the statistics though - ie, who they were gathered by, when, etc etc. Nonetheless, there would be many people that I can personally think of, close friends for example who would be pretty offended to see that someone had stated their infection was caused because they 'should know better'. There are many different reasons why people contract STD's, not always because of lack of education. When discussing matters such as this, I feel it is really important to be precise in how they are discussed and not fall into generalisations.

Also as a matter of point, AIDS is not an 'illness' and neither is it a disease. Rather it can be seen as what happens when a person with HIV infection's immune system drops below a certain level. Someone with HIV with a healthy t-cell count could get Burkitt's Lymphoma for example. They get Burkitt's because they are immuno-suppressed but you wouldn't called Burkitt's 'AIDS'.