Plant-persons

[katie bridgewater]

Next time you pick yourself some basil leaves for that nice vegan salad, you might choose to think about it differently...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16916474

[Susanne]

Oh yes....I remember one time at work when a vegetarian coworker was giving me a HUGELY hard time for eating meat. We were talking about deer hunting at the time which is ingrained in the local culture around these parts (she was from another state) I looked at her and said at least the animals can run away. The plants that you eat are rooted (literally) to the ground & don't stand a chance when you come at them with a shovel or a pair of shears!
I fully realize that this specious argument doesn't apply to animals raised specifically for consumption but at the time I couldn't resist. It appears that I may have been partly mistaken ...but the plants still can get up & run away!

[katie bridgewater]

I can't find it but I once saw a time-lapse short film of a clover's journey around a grassy lawn. I was gobsmacked at how much a small plant can wander at will, moving about to 'graze' the nutrients in the soil. It made me think about plants in a completely different way. It looked like a little creature, wandering about. I think we often forget that time is some thing that limits our perception of the universe. A day is like the blink of an eye to a mountain range, and a lifetime to a damsel fly...

[Kima]

I'm so happy that research is now going in this direction! I once saw something about how plants sense it when they're being touched and respond with [I don't remember what, vibrations or something] that can be registered by certain devices. Ok, my explanation is vary vague, but it all reinforces my animistic stance and makes me think about all beings in a different way.

[Muddy Fox]

I saw a demonstration of this in the early 80s at psychic & mystic exhibition in Birmingham. They had put electrodes on some plants, and wired them up to speakers, some kind of bio feedback system, and the plants were making noises, then someone showed the difference between a happy plant noise and distressed plant by making a cut in the leaf or stalk of one of the plants.The screaming noise that came through the speaker was just horrible, it upset me at the time. I was about 16 or 17, and I had a spell where I tried not to walk on grass, in case I hurt the grass blades. I got more callous as I grew up and now I can strim and cut grass without the guilt.

[mark the compost elf]

As a vegan, this just makes me proud that i can terrorise a whole veg patch by eating a single radish, very......very.... sadistically slowly

Remarkable though is it not?

[Kima]

As a vegan, this just makes me proud that i can terrorise a whole veg patch by eating a single radish, very......very.... sadistically slowly

Remarkable though is it not?

At least, as far as I know, the eggs I eat do not send out warning signs to others

[katie bridgewater]

I saw a demonstration of this in the early 80s at psychic & mystic exhibition in Birmingham. They had put electrodes on some plants, and wired them up to speakers, some kind of bio feedback system, and the plants were making noises, then someone showed the difference between a happy plant noise and distressed plant by making a cut in the leaf or stalk of one of the plants.The screaming noise that came through the speaker was just horrible, it upset me at the time. I was about 16 or 17, and I had a spell where I tried not to walk on grass, in case I hurt the grass blades. I got more callous as I grew up and now I can strim and cut grass without the guilt.

I think this kind of demonstration is designed to make you react with guilt and shock. The plants are not 'screaming'. The electro magnetic data they provided was processed and manipulated in such a way that the sound they chose to use sounded like screaming - a typical example of the anthropomorphising of other beings. Plants don't have the same kind of nervous system as animals, nor do they have vocal cords. They are used to having leaves eaten and trampled and in fact their bodies are not permanently 'fixed' like ours are. In some cases they need parts of themselves to be eaten, or at least can spare them without suffering. I think you were manipulated to feel guilt and distress, by people with nothing better to do than harm plants so they could feel like important 'teachers'. This kind of guilt is typical of the ''new age' and psychic fair world and I personally despise such cod science that is so prevalent at this kind of event. Much better to get one's information from reputable sources such as the New Scientist and validated research institutes.

There is no way to avoid harming other beings in this world. We would all die very quickly of starvation, hypothermia or dehydration if we tried to. We can only choose one of 4 options:
1) to see ourselves as having dominion over the world (usually because God said so) so we can do what we want with it (this is the predominant judaeo-christian theology) regardless of the suffering we cause
2) to ignore the harm we do and not give a stuff about it (similar to the above, but without the need for God to give you permission)
3) do no harm and live like a Jaine at best, or starve to death at worst
4) recognise the harm we do and the resources we use as just that, grieve for them and make damned sure we only take / harm that which we need and do so with proper apology and respect.

Guilt is futile.

Of course, having said that, your response was to become more mindful of your relationship with the world (apart from the guilt which isn't helpful!). All mindfulness is, IMO, a step in the right direction.

[katie bridgewater]

As a vegan, this just makes me proud that i can terrorise a whole veg patch by eating a single radish, very......very.... sadistically slowly

LOL!

[mark the compost elf]

But without guilt would we not only adgere to the first two of your list.

I agree with you though that plants nervous systems are indeed different to ours and that life thrives on death, it is after all a cyclic process in that way.

I think you can combine your last two points very easily though, recognising the harm that could be done and 'consciously' living to avoid it where possible. Although i do realise that my last sentence is seeded from your last point, it depends really on a personal definition of need and requirement.

A fascinating study though that shows that, in ways other than the flow of life, plants can connect and 'communicate' using physical menas. I wonder what the chemiclas and hormones do while plants/ trees are flowering? Do they communicate the need to mate as well? i can see some evolutionary benefits from such a method.
(foxglove- 'pssst, i'm ready to pollinate you' .... ' NOoooo, please don't, i'm a aconitum! and i'm not in to mixed species relationships' - aconitum. fox glove - 'Bugger, thought i wasin with a chance there, maybe i'm just seedy!...' )

[katie bridgewater]

But without guilt would we not only adgere to the first two of your list.

I disagree. Whilst guilt can be a motivating factor, I think compassion comes from love, a different place all together and much deeper.

[Muddy Fox]

I think so too Katie, however guilt has a purpose perhaps. Guilt is that little inner voice that nags and niggles when we know that we have not acted from love or compassion, but self interest. Maybe guilt teaches the lessons we need to learn,but sometimes guilt is a wasted emotion because the damage is irreversible to plant or being.

[katie bridgewater]

I think so too Katie, however guilt has a purpose perhaps. Guilt is that little inner voice that nags and niggles when we know that we have not acted from love or compassion, but self interest. Maybe guilt teaches the lessons we need to learn,but sometimes guilt is a wasted emotion because the damage is irreversible to plant or being.

I still agree that guilt can produce similar results, but I think that acting out of guilt is actually wherein the self-interest lies. Acting out of compassion is selfless, as the motivation is not to make oneself feel better, whereas acting out of guilt is precisely to stop oneself feeling so uncomfortable. Outwardly the same behaviour, but inwardly, more selfish. I think guilt is when we concern ourselves with what will happen to us or how we feel about ourselves if we don't modify our actions, and love is when we are concerned about what will happen to others if we don't modify our actions. Subtle, but truly different IMO.

[Susanne]

I can't find it but I once saw a time-lapse short film of a clover's journey around a grassy lawn. I was gobsmacked at how much a small plant can wander at will, moving about to 'graze' the nutrients in the soil. It made me think about plants in a completely different way. It looked like a little creature, wandering about. I think we often forget that time is some thing that limits our perception of the universe. A day is like the blink of an eye to a mountain range, and a lifetime to a damsel fly...

I'm definitely going to start paying close attention to the clover in my lawn this summer! I agree with your thoughts on our perception of time. I remember seeing a program on hummingbirds which had a piece that showed how other creatures movements look to the hummingbirds eye....very slow as you can imagine.
When I was a child we did a project in school where we were each given a small African violet to grow. Half the class spoke nicely to their plants and the other half yelled at them meanly. The results were pretty amazing. There was a girl in my class who I was intimidated by all through elementary school. Of course she chose to be in the mean group & I still remember how her plant wilted away....I guess I wasn't the only one intimidated by her. I felt so sorry for that plant!
I've also heard that music can effect plant growth as well. I'll have to look into that...