Vegetarianism

[rabenfrau]

I personally don't think vegetarianism is a part of Druidry. It's only down to how the individual feels. I became vegetarian wayy before I even discovered that Druidry exists. And right now, I don't think it has anything to do with it. My reason for becoming vegetarian was my concern for animals - I didn't like how animals were treated in slaughter houses, though I realise now that with some research you can find meat which comes from animals that were cared for and killed humanly. I just wouldn't be able to go back to eating meat, the smell and even the thought that I am eating the flesh of an animal kinda makes me feel a little sick.

Same here.
My reason for becoming a vegetarian is not druidry, the reason is my love for animals and that I don't want to get them suffer because of I want to eat a steak or something. For now I'm veggie since two years, and it makes me sick to think about eating meat by myself. But it's no problem if someone near me eats meat - as long as I don't have to eat it to.

For druidry you don't have to be vegetarian, it's a personal, individual thing.
I remember something I read in a book of Scott Cunningham. It's told that for wicca you should be vegetarian, but he couldn't do so, because if he only eat green he became very sensible for different energies. Couldn't stand this long and so he starts to eat meat again.
So, it's just a individual thing.

Greetings,
rabenfrau

[CedarMist]

Ooh, that post had so much win incorperated into it.

For me, I'm an omnivore with an unusual philosiphy. Forgive me, because Im about to steal from Disney. But I adhere to the "Circle of Life" concept. Every single living being lives because it consumes Life. I have no qualms about eating fish, bird, beast and plant alike. Does or should the fox feel guilt for claiming the life of a hen to feed itself and it's young? What about the dolphin who feeds on schools or fish, or the whale that devours hundreds of krill in a single bite?

However there is an understanding and awareness, and what's more, the respect that should be given to the animal for giving (whether willingly or not) it's life so that I might live.

I eat as organic and as green as possible. I want to know where my food comes from, and I support my local farmers as much as possible. There's nothing like meeting the chicken you'll get to know even MORE closely later that night at dinner.

But at the same time, I need to understand that I my own life may one day be taken. I must accept this fact. I have seen a deer lower its head in acceptance to the hunter's bow, but how many of us would lower our's to the maws of other creatures. Even if I live to an old age and die in a hospital, one day, my body will taken back into the soil (or scattered to the winds) and plants will grow from it, creatures will eat those plants, and the cycle continues.

It's the blatant diregard to this cycle, to consume without understanding where, how or why this happens and without respecting the creature or having the resolve to accept the cycle that most people seem to practice.

Moral of the story: Respect and understand what you eat and why! Life consumes life, but respect the life and give your own when the time comes.

I definitely understand the Circle of Life thing. I certainly don't see us as natural vegetarians or think a wolf is evil for hunting a caribou. That said, I simply assessed the reasons I should or shouldn't eat meat, and found insufficient reasons for it to be a part of my diet. I think the fact that you are contemplating your food is what is Druidic, not really what the food is.

[DJ Droood]

What's wrong with eating dog meat?

By Emily Lodish, Global Post

Barbecued dog and steamed paws?

These and so much more were to be had at this weekend's dog meat festival near Seoul.

Alas, it was not to be.

Animal rights activists put up such a stink that the organizers, from the Korea Dog Farmers' Association, said there was no way they could go through with the event.

"We couldn't possibly go on with the plan due to endless phone calls of complaint ... now there are few willing to rent us a place for the event," Ann Yong-Geun, a professor of nutrition at Chung Cheong University and an advisor to the association, told AFP.

Organizers of the festival had wanted to showcase the positive side of the dog meat industry in South Korea, where there are about 600 farms that raise dogs for meat, according to Ann.

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com ... -dog-meat/

[dvawlqos]

Hi All,

Being new to the Druid path and new here, I have a question that although simple I feel may raise some strong opinions:

As a Druid, is becoming a Vegetarian encouraged/required?

What are the social implications of choosing either path of pabulation with regards to getting along with other druids as well as the druid ideas/ideals and morals on this?

(Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, I did a search but didn't find anything)

Thank you!

My thinking runs this way -- the goal of Druidry is to live naturally. So any choice that we make ought to be based as much as possible off of what is natural.

Science tells us that as far back as Homo erectus (and possibly all the way back to the proto-apes considering that chimps occasionally eat meat) our ancestors were meat eaters. So our bodies evolved to eat meat -- at most as a dietary suplement. I don't think you can pin the American diet on our ancestors -- meat for most of history was a side dish, not the main course.

[DJ Droood]

The world's appetite for fish is now at an all time high according to the United Nations.

Figures from the U.N.'s Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) state fish is currently the most-traded food commodity, worth around $102 billion in 2008.

But as our appetite for fish increases, the world's fish stocks are becoming increasingly overexploited and depleted, which "gives cause for concern" the U.N.'s 2010 State of World Fisheries and Aquaculture report has stated.

Put simply, we are eating too much, says Dr Daniel Pauly, marine biologist and professor at the University of British Colombia.

"The pressure we are imposing on the world's fisheries is excessive. Either we are eating too much or we are too many," he said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/BUSINESS/08 ... ?hpt=hp_c2

[reilz81]

I personally think its a choice we make, our genetic make up is designed for both, but I see many taking it to extreme's, too much of anything is bad for you, I chose to be vegetarian because I observed cruelty to animals, so I made the choice to stop helping them, by buying it. Initially I stopped having all milk products also, but later found that was making me too weak on the soy milk, so eventually went back to the milk products.

[Duellist]

For my part, I eat meat.

* Skip the next paragraph if you are not comfortable with meat preparation. *

I have carved up recognisable animal parts, happily finding the weak points in a shoulder-joint to separate ball and socket for better removal of meat. I am at peace with dead flesh and can apply those same lessons which once detailed the workings of the human body to animal carcasses. My personal rule, my promise to myself, is that I will never eat meat I wouldn't prepare. I think it would be the worst kind of self-delusion to buy in a packet what I could not cut and tear from a dead body.

* If you had to sit that one out, welcome back to the post. *

Despite being happy to prepare meat, I actually eat surprisingly little. It is not ethics; living in the UK and knowing our laws helps you feel better about how animals are treated as long as you buy British meat. It is not even the carbon-footprint; my taste for meat tends to overrule my fear of global warming and my choice to have one child instead of many can more than offset my carnivorous lifestyle.

The simple fact is that money pushes me toward vegetarian meals. It is expensive to buy meat in a country that has a semi-ethical meat industry. I can halve my food costs on those days when I don't have meat. I don't really miss it, as long as I get some meat each week, and I tend to feel more healthy. I suspect that I may end up having vegetarian days even if my finances did improve enough, but I doubt I would ever give up meat entirely. Going vegan is very unlikely, with cheese being a staple of my diet, but I do have to avoid drinking too much milk-based food or I get quite ill.

Living in a small village, we can buy our meat at farmers' markets (allegedly) directly from the supplier. It is more expensive than Tesco, but that in itself is somewhat comforting once you start wondering how supermarkets can be cheaper. We get to see fields of sheep around, as well as pigs and cows wandering in fields. I am not sure I have ever seem Llama meat for sale, but I do see a lot of Llamas too...

[DJ Droood]

My personal rule, my promise to myself, is that I will never eat meat I wouldn't prepare. I think it would be the worst kind of self-delusion to buy in a packet what I could not cut and tear from a dead body.

I think that stance is very ethical and druidic. I don't have a problem eating others...that seems to be the way of life....it is the modern meat system that cause so much suffering and environmental damage that I can't rationalize my way into participating in (anymore).

Plus, from a purely aesthetic point of view, it was never in me to like meat...I always enjoyed the highly salted and fatty processed foods like sausage, hot dogs and bacon, ground beef...the stuff with little nutritional value, but lots of taste and utility....but straight-up cuts of meat..beef in particular...I always had to gag down, unless it was slopped in some sort of gravy or sauce to disguise the taste and texture....(and I have to add that my Mother, gawd bless her, was a great baker but a terrible cook, and my father liked his meat cooked until it was hard and charred...I think he grew up in tough, pre-refrigeration times and they had to make do with some dodgy meats, so they cooked the crap out of everything)...it wasn't until after I stopped eating it, and looked back at my childhood ("How can you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?") and the rather conventional way I fed my own family...you do what you know, right?.....how liberated I now feel that I don't *have* to eat meat anymore...

[Skogsvandrare]

I eat meat. By strong preference meat that is either game or where i know how the animal has been treated in life (and know to be a good life). Also, were I live it is not natural to be vegetarian, but one becomes even more dependant on food that has been transported all over the globe (unless one wants to live on root vegetables and fava beans all winter).

And I agree with many others here; if you are not willing to at least once in your life take part in slaughering and butchering your own meat you do loose a bit of the "right" to eat meat. By preference I want to take part in all step of the chain from an animal walking free in the woods to my plate.

[athelia143]

Hi All,
Being new to the Druid path and new here, I have a question that although simple I feel may raise some strong opinions:
As a Druid, is becoming a Vegetarian encouraged/required?
Thank you!

There is no 'official' requirement to become a vegetarian on the Druid path.

Meat was very important to the ancient Celts if legends and scholarly writings have anything to say about it, i.e.: the Hero's portion of meat given to accomplished persons at banquets, the practice of Imbas Forosnai ('Manifestation that enlightens': (it) discovers what thing soever the poet likes and which he desires to reveal.(2) Thus then is that done. The poet chews a piece of the red flesh of a pig, or a dog, or a cat, and puts it then on a flagstone behind the door-valve, and chants an incantation over it, and offers it to idol gods, and calls them to him, and leaves them not on the morrow, and then chants over his two palms, and calls again idol gods to him, that his sleep may not be disturbed. Then he puts his two palms on his two cheeks and sleeps." - From Nora Chadwick's "Imbas Forosnai"), etc.

Human beings are by nature omnivores, meaning a diet consisting of both meat and veggies.

I am a vegetarian due to a medical condition which has made it impossible for my body to digest meat, but that does not make me any more or less of a Druid. If I could eat meat, I likely would and would not consider myself any less of a Druid because of it.

What one eats is one's own choice. Go with what is right for you. Your spirit will guide you accordingly.

Athelia /|\

[DJ Droood]

Just to..ummm...stir the stew a bit...

http://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-red ... 5423.story

All red meat is bad for you, new study says
A long-term study finds that eating any amount and any type increases the risk of premature death.

By Eryn Brown, Los Angeles Times

March 12, 2012

Eating red meat — any amount and any type — appears to significantly increase the risk of premature death, according to a long-range study that examined the eating habits and health of more than 110,000 adults for more than 20 years.

For instance, adding just one 3-ounce serving of unprocessed red meat — picture a piece of steak no bigger than a deck of cards — to one's daily diet was associated with a 13% greater chance of dying during the course of the study.

mmmm yummmm

[Equidae]

I've been a vegetarian since before I became interested in becoming pagan, let alone a Druid (I actually became vegetarian while on deployment, so you can imagine that was an interesting experience...) I chose to become vegetarian for several reasons, namely: the environmental implications of eating meat, the health implications of eating meat, the consequences meat consumption has on my fellow humans, and the animal welfare issues of it. I'm no pacifist, but I don't believe in killing unless absolutely necessary. As a citizen of a first world country eating meat isn't necessary for me, and so I don't. I think these values align well with being a Druid, though I don't feel that being vegetarian is necessary to be one.

[poeticoxana]

I've found members of OBOD are pretty representative of the broader community on most issues, including vegetarianism, which means as primarily Westerners, we have a strong cultural resistance to vegetarianism, which means the vast majority of OBODians, and probably Druids you will encounter will be omnivores.

If your goal is to get along with the most druids possible, by all means, keep eating meat. You will be patted on the back heartily and passed a horn of mead and a KFC Double Down. If your goal is to live by ecological and moral ideals, you should become a vegetarian. If you are a very careful omnivore, which most people will claim to be, but almost nobody is, you might be able to lessen the damage you do by meat eating, but the reality is you will be doing more to harm the environment (and perhaps your mind, body and soul) than any car driving and flying you do combined.

If you are studying both sides of the issue, this board, which is particularly (rabidly?!) pro-meat (not surprising if you study the board demographics), should provide you with a good overview of the arguments based on ignorance of modern meat production (the Celts were omnivores, we evolved as omnivores, etc.) or which display what a good friend of mine here on the board refers to as "cognitive dissonance" (although he uses the term with air travel).


now sit back and watch the factory-farmed feathers fly!

Well put, DJ Droood, well put indeed! I follow Druidic spiritual practices like everyone else, and have respect for them. At the same time, I have respect for solid data that shows an enormous negative effect that animal farming has on our earth, our air, our water. No "food miles" or "packaging" or "poor little worms and microbes that plant agriculture kills" comes even close. I feel sorry for the microbes, but the fact that the UN recognised animal farming as more damaging to the environment than all the world transport put together cannot be overlooked by any spiritual or non-spiritual person for that matter. And no amount of self-soothing "meditations" that supposedly give people permission to eat meat is going to change that.

[DJ Droood]

I drive a car, heat my home with fossil fuel and sometimes fly...so I have no high horse to ride (or eat)...not eating meat is also a self-serving choice...I'm not keen on consuming antibiotics, growth hormones and lysteria...the fact that is an ethical choice is just a bonus.

[DJ Droood]

I also just ate a pudding cup.. .garbage, on many levels.

[DaRC]

Oh most esteemed Droood I was not going to get involved in this but then you post...

If your goal is to live by ecological and moral ideals, you should become a vegetarian.

Hmmmmm! If you'd said mostly a local vegetarian I'd have stayed under my rock.

I would suggest that actually each individual needs to take responsibility for their diet and it's impact on the environment. Intensely, industrialised farming is the issue whether it involves meat or vegetables.
Here in the UK the entire island's ecosystem is effectively man-made. My local ecosystem the South Downs has been, for centuries, managed by a mixture of farming. The land on the top of the hills is too poor for arable but in the coombs (the dips in the landscape) - can produce arable crops by rotating animals with crops. The animals need to be a mixture of cattle and sheep as they eat slightly differently ( cattle are less fussy - as long as you get the correct breed). They (during the winter / fallow years) fertilise the land ready for arable crops. When done properly it creates a natural, balanced eco-system. During the last century we lost our way (post WWII) various gov'ts wanted to increase farming 'effectiveness' and encouraged high yield, industrialised farming. This took the animals off the landscape, ripped out the hedges and had the farmers banging in loads of fertiliser (often from fish by-catch) and insecticides to produce cash-crops. The ecosystem then went in to a negative cycle where wild flowers, insects, wild life and ultimately humans suffered.

From my perspective the ecological and moral viewpoint is understanding your responsibility - to maintain my local s ecosystem it is necessary to eat sheep (South Downs Sheep are a breed that is good for lamb and wool) and cattle (even milk production has it's by-product in Bullocks). It is necessary to eat locally produced seasonal vegetables and accept that meat is not a cheap every-day product.

There are vast areas of this landscape that is not suitable for arable farming (think of all those wild 'natural' places like Dartmoor, the Highlands, Snowdonia) but also there is not enough land for everyone to be a vegetarian without intense aggressive agriculture.

If your goal is to live by ecological and moral ideals, you need to eat a balanced diet where you know the provenance of your food.

[DaRC]

Oh most esteemed Droood I was not going to get involved in this but then you post...

If your goal is to live by ecological and moral ideals, you should become a vegetarian.

Hmmmmm! If you'd said mostly a local vegetarian I'd have stayed under my rock.

I would suggest that actually each individual needs to take responsibility for their diet and it's impact on the environment. Intensely, industrialised farming is the issue whether it involves meat or vegetables.
Here in the UK the entire island's ecosystem is effectively man-made. My local ecosystem the South Downs has been, for centuries, managed by a mixture of farming. The land on the top of the hills is too poor for arable but in the coombs (the dips in the landscape) - can produce arable crops by rotating animals with crops. The animals need to be a mixture of cattle and sheep as they eat slightly differently ( cattle are less fussy - as long as you get the correct breed). They (during the winter / fallow years) fertilise the land ready for arable crops. When done properly it creates a natural, balanced eco-system. During the last century we lost our way (post WWII) various gov'ts wanted to increase farming 'effectiveness' and encouraged high yield, industrialised farming. This took the animals off the landscape, ripped out the hedges and had the farmers banging in loads of fertiliser (often from fish by-catch) and insecticides to produce cash-crops. The ecosystem then went in to a negative cycle where wild flowers, insects, wild life and ultimately humans suffered.

From my perspective the ecological and moral viewpoint is understanding your responsibility - to maintain my local s ecosystem it is necessary to eat sheep (South Downs Sheep are a breed that is good for lamb and wool) and cattle (even milk production has it's by-product in Bullocks). It is necessary to eat locally produced seasonal vegetables and accept that meat is not a cheap every-day product.

There are vast areas of this landscape that is not suitable for arable farming (think of all those wild 'natural' places like Dartmoor, the Highlands, Snowdonia) but also there is not enough land for everyone to be a vegetarian without intense aggressive agriculture.

If your goal is to live by ecological and moral ideals, you need to eat a balanced diet where you know the provenance of your food.

[DJ Droood]

Oh most esteemed Droood I was not going to get involved in this but then you post...

If your goal is to live by ecological and moral ideals, you should become a vegetarian.

Hmmmmm! If you'd said mostly a local vegetarian I'd have stayed under my rock.

I would suggest that actually each individual needs to take responsibility for their diet and it's impact on the environment. Intensely, industrialised farming is the issue whether it involves meat or vegetables.

yes indeed.

[Cynon]

Can a person honestly call themselves a vegetarian if they eat cheese and eggs and drink milk? As has been mentioned, to produce milk a cow has to give birth periodically. Fine if the calf is female, but if it's a bull calf it will go to slaughter. And the cows themselves will be slaughtered when they stop being productive. And as for eggs - the chicken population has to replenished in order to produce the eggs. What happens to the male chicks? All that slaughter and still people call themselves vegetarians.

No, the only people who can honestly say they live a vegetarian lifestyle are the vegans among us. And I wish I had the strength of mind to follow their example.

[Aphritha]

I think vegetarians still deserve a pat on the back. Being vegetarian can be a difficult thing for many. There's giving it up, of course. When you get used to something, and enjoy it, its hard to go without. Then the convenience factor. For people who don't have the time/motivation to cook a big meal, most of the quick options aren't vegetarian friendly(though I'm noticing over the years that is getting better ). The social aspect...having to stop and answer questions from every third person about why you do it, and then arguing with friends/family/possibly strangers whether its okay to eat fish and fowl. It gets obnoxious.
Veganism is quite the change. It does put the least amount of strain(in most modern societies, but not all) on the land and our animal friends. However, vegetarianism still does alot. Dairy cows produce over a lifetime more food. They give milk for years, while as a cow being killed for meat can only give once. It takes so many resources to raise cattle...and well, it seems like a waste to feed it all that grain/corn that could be used for something else, use up all that land that could be used to grow more food, and then after you have what you want turn around and kill it? At least with the dairy it keeps on giving.
I myself am 95% vegan. (I say 95% because when my husband takes me out, which isn't often, I choose not to worry about the dairy in my food so he doesn't have to listen to me nitpick for the night, and well...I still have trouble resisting the ice cream truck. Not all ice cream...just that happy sounding truck...)I can't bring myself to use animals like product. Besides, what's natural about drinking milk? Can you just see us all in the fields, nursing off of cows?
It is all personal choice though. What works for one person in one area may be completely unreasonable for someone else somewhere else.