Knowing your stuff

[Heddwen]

Hi folks, as you are well aware druidry encompasses knowledge of the world around us. This includes trees, plants and herbs, the stars and animal life, to name a few examples. Now I'm guessing that the druids of old would be taught how to understand and recognise each tree etc. They would then pass this training and knowledge on to the next generation and so on. So what I'd be interested to know here is how important is it as todays druids to understand and recognise each tree, herb, star etc OR should we take a more modern druidic view and work with the trees on a more spiritual level only. The type of tree being less relevent to the druid than the spiritual value. What do you think?

[clyffmydylltyn]

I can't say what I think anyone else should do, but for me learning all about trees and all the other denizens of the natural world just seems like a natural thing to do as a Druid.

If you want to know about Trees, I recommend this book which I posted about here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=41729

The Collins Guide is also excellent: http://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Trees-p ... 988&sr=8-1

[Sciethe]

Ha! good question, been thinking about this myself.
I'm a freelance large garden/small estate manager, for me mainstream knowledge of plants and trees is essential, it's my job. On the other hand I had the privilege of an expensive education, I was *supposed* to go and be a doctor, lawyer, middle class professional of some sort and it came as a shock to my family when I firmly dug my heels in, insisted on staying clear of the mainstream and being land-based in my work and life. They got over it. Sort of. It's fair to say that I'm a gardener because I'm a Druid, so you could say that I need the plant knowledge because I'm a Druid.

That's the practical side, I'm lucky, I get to work with vegetation all day spirtually, physically and mentally. I can vouch for the benefits of understanding plants at a biological as well as a spiritual level, and can see that working purely on a spiritual basis would leave out a whole level of meaning that I couldn't now do without. Call it the beauty and magic of science.

Another aspect is that I do voluntary scientific work for a tree organisation. Without this work the law makers and descision people in local government would be far less likely to protect particular trees on the say-so of this organisation. The science is a lingua franca between the Druid world and the grey minds in charge, it's the way of influencing the unfortunatly unimaginative herders of the fate of our trees. It's good for Druidic understanding to be able to bridge the gap.
Anyway, that's just me.
S

[Aphritha]

I feel the spiritual and scientific most likely end up walking hand in hand in this case. You can start just looking at one side, but chances are as you learn, the other side will turn up as well. For example, if you're learning about the spiritual aspects of the birch, as you study, you're also likely to turn up facts on how/where it grows, how to identify it, medicinal purposes it may have. At that point the logical and spiritual begin to meld, in my opinion.

[Hennie]

I have over the years come to have very personal relationships with about 14 trees. I know which genus the belong to, but more important, what characters they are, what advice they have given me etc. My dearest Jacob, a White beam, has played a major role in me awakening more fully to my inner talents.

[katie bridgewater]

Now I'm guessing that the druids of old would be taught how to understand and recognise each tree etc. They would then pass this training and knowledge on to the next generation and so on.

I don't think understanding and recognising trees was anything special to 'Druids of Old' (whoever they were). Until the arrival of industrialisation and urbanisation, pretty much everyone would have recognised all the trees in their bioregion, and would have known which ones were good for what. Some (though not many people) still do know and use this knowledge, regardless of whether they call themselves 'Druids'! Ancient Druids may have revered certain trees more than others (we have very concrete evidence for this little to go on - just a few literary references), but the knowledge of trees would have been fundamental to anyone living a neolithic or bronze age life.

[treegod]

Druid were the scientists of their time, which I feel is an important image of the druid, so they would investigate and learn the lore of trees. I suppose druids also had their "scientific" specialities, so not all of them would know everything about trees. As a druid symbol I think it's important to get to know trees and their ecological links, but we don't have to become experts.

On a psychological level its important: what do they symbolise? What thoughts and feelings do they evoke in us? And also what feeling of personality do they evoke? (I don't see trees as having spirits or personalities, but they certainly have a presence which evokes these feelings).

Both inner and outer aspects of trees and our interactions with them go hand in hand, and I wouldn't want to concentrate on just one or the other.

[Heddwen]

I have over the years come to have very personal relationships with about 14 trees. I know which genus the belong to, but more important, what characters they are, what advice they have given me etc. My dearest Jacob, a White beam, has played a major role in me awakening more fully to my inner talents.

I agree. Those spiritual connections that we make while working with the tree are invaluable. Trees become our friends and life companions.I think that as we immerse ourselves deeper in the OBOD 'way' we come to this realisation.We can always look up facts and figures in books. This is inherently what our druidry is all about; the spiritual aspect.It doesn't matter whether religion is present or not. Spirituality is the thing that makes us druids, without it it is possible to have an appreciation of trees but its not quite the same thing.

[clyffmydylltyn]

For those who, like me, like to be 'doing' something whilst out and about, I also recommend these two companion books:

The Thrifty Forager by Alys Fowler: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrifty-Forager ... 365&sr=1-1

Food for Free by Richard Mabey: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Food-Free-Colli ... 396&sr=1-1

My next purchase will be Booze for Free (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Booze-Free-Andy ... 444&sr=1-1) by Andy Hamilton!

[Whitemane]

I believe that such knowledge would be more dynamic. in addition to knowing the trees, they would have known what would feed from them, nest In them, and what would grow alongside them when healthy and ailing, and what uses they could be put to.

Such knowledge would have become more widespread with the decline of the Druids as a privileged class, and lost with urbanization.

[Corwen]

I believe that such knowledge would be more dynamic. in addition to knowing the trees, they would have known what would feed from them, nest In them, and what would grow alongside them when healthy and ailing, and what uses they could be put to.

Such knowledge would have become more widespread with the decline of the Druids as a privileged class, and lost with urbanization.

As Katie says, these are things everyone knew, not just Druids. In fact as the elite of their day its possible Druids knew less about trees than the average Celtic farmer! Everyone still knows these things in many places on Earth where urbanisation isn't the norm. Its important to remember that it was only a couple of years ago that the number of people living in cities started to outnumber those living on the land. We are especially ignorant in the modern urban West, our ancestors, and many other folk still living around the world, would be amazed at the depth of our ignorance.

[GreenOak51]

I don't agree that everyone living on the land would have knowledge of the trees and plants, etc. in their environment. I'm not saying that druids had more knowledge. Katie's right, we don't know. I suspect, however, that the people living off the land knew what they needed to know about their environment - which trees were good for tools, for furniture, which trees to stay away from, which trees certain animals liked, which trees were poisonous. General every day knowledge. But there would have been those people (again, not necessarily druids) that had special knowledge. Just as today we have people who drive cars but aren't mechanics. People who eat bread but don't know how to bake. People who make great tomato sauce but don't grow the tomatoes.

This is a particularly good conversation for those who do live in urban centres and suburban areas. Many of us here on this board fall into that category. Some people come to druidry with a little more than passing trepidation because they don't know anything about nature and don't know where to start. While druidry calls them, the perceived expectations can be daunting and off-putting. Our world, our physical world, has changed over the centuries. What once would have been native is now naturalized. What once would have been for food is now cross bred for ornament and is toxic to ingest. Progress and cement environments have replaced our natural environment. Most importantly, those who would do the teaching, are either gone, their knowledge unpassed, their experience buried with them. Some who want to know have more than an uphill battle. It's often not easy and more often, not cheap.

I believe that with the call to a druid life there is already a deep interest. I think people follow up on that how they can. I wouldn't, though, like to see druidy become 'modernized'. That would change the way I feel about it. Not about me, but about 'druidry'. So much in our world today is transitory, throw-away, shallow and without commitment. I fancy druidry in a different light.

Peace
T
/|\

[Heddwen]

It depends what you mean by modernised druidry...surely all things change over time. Druidry should be relevent for todays society.

[elementalheart]

For me one of the difficulties of our current culture is the dissociation from nature and sadly as a result there is a natural awe/fear which emerges as we realise our ignorance of the natural world around us and the amount of connection we have lost. Individually we can respond with curiosity and reclaim aspects of that ability to live within the world rather than in our heads by adding gradually to the experience of being within the landscape rather than watching it on TV.

I believe many people who start to explore spirituality, with honest intention, may respond to that emerging sense of the immensity of our disconnection by avoiding the challenge of making small inroads into the knowledge void because it is such an apparently unachievable aim to gain the level of environmental control we have been conditioned to seek in order to feel secure. In compensation, it is easier to write off the difficult and focus on what appears more straightforward, direct spiritual contact and working "only spiritually". But the nature of the mind often leads to unwitting projection of what a tree is, even as some people anthropomorphise animals and miss their essential character because they have not really seen what they are looking at and allowed the mind to create something that fits the already known. That may be satisfying but I am not sure it is based on a real connection to what the tree or animal is, let alone an acceptance of its different nature as a teacher for what we don't know or wish to accept about ourselves. And in that teaching is what I have found most valuable, the need to relate to something other, to see what I mirror of it within me and what I seek to project externally rather than acknowledge and own as mine.

In short, a vote for working on all levels, physical, mental, emotional and spiritual, rather than any one in isolation.

Besides, there are some trees I have known how to identify since childhood and some I puzzle over, some I wouldn't know if I saw them - yet. And in that is a source of joy, curiosity and adventure so the task of learning more excites me

[Dathi]

Greetings,

I see a pathway of: Knowing - Doing - Being.

The "book knowledge" is a start and provides a foundation for various sorts of practice. But it is only through doing lots of practical things (esoteric & mundane) that we can reach a stage of "Being".

Thus, I have many books that I've read. Yippee Ra Ra! But lets take a couple of examples. Cited above is Richard Maybey "Food for Free". It's a great little book (I have the pocket version) . Also in my bag of tricks I have http://www.amazon.co.uk/Healing-Plants- ... 0002200554 (also excellent) and http://www.amazon.com/Druids-Herbal-Sac ... 0892815019 as well as several other herbals.

But even a full library of such texts is no good without appropriate and prudent action and deeper insight. In the bushcraft seminar linked below I mentioned an experience involving Penny Bun and Death Cap mushrooms http://www.donegalgardensociety.net/talkmushrooms.pdf I can't tell the difference, and a fairly blimming important difference it is too.

All the book learning in the modern world is not enough to make one self sufficient (or even survive a few weeks in what we imagine ancient Druidy times to be) so the "doing" bit becomes important. And it's only with a lot of "doing" (or if you wish; experential learning), that we can reach a stage of "Being". Although I've used a foraging example, the same principle applies to many other druidy activities - learning to play a harp from a book? Reading the "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle" blurb alone to become vicariously "eco friendly"?

It's just a never-ending journey for me. "Knowing your stuff" is just the start.

"Every day is a school day".

Dathi

[DaRC]

I see a pathway of: Knowing - Doing - Being.

The "book knowledge" is a start and provides a foundation for various sorts of practice. But it is only through doing lots of practical things (esoteric & mundane) that we can reach a stage of "Being".

Hmm I think I see more of a circle, a process if you like. There's stuff I learnt as a kid (for example - that Rose Hips make great itching powder) and when to pick them but making Rose Hip syrup (which mum always made) I learnt to make as an adult from a book. So a Doing - Being - Knowing cycle.

With the Grey Poplar I was out discovering more about the local Flora and had a stand of these trees which I'd always found interesting but was not sure what they were. I took a leaf, got home worked out what it was from the book. Then spent more time with the trees understanding they're being. A Doing - Knowing - Being cycle.

Although with Fungi it's always been a regular Knowing - Doing - Being cycle. You can't risk not knowing with the 'shrooms. I've digressed from the OP though . My personal viewpoint is that knowledge of your own local Flora and Fauna is essential BUT other knowledge (such as those in the Druid Plant Oracle that aren't local to you) can just be at a spiritual level.

[Whitemane]

From Knowing and Doing comes understanding, and from understanding comes wisdom.

You can't do much with ignorance, but by taking the time to learn, and then extending what you learn to doing (quite prudently, of course), you gain understanding. When all the little bits of understanding start coming together, you become wise(r).

[GreenOak51]

Heddwen wrote:

It depends what you mean by modernised druidry...surely all things change over time. Druidry should be relevent for todays society.

Absolutely. But modernising something often means removing the experience of those gone before (the ancestors), not understanding why they used it the way they did, ignoring why it was important. And then being able to use that experience and information to apply it to our own time and place.

I'll give you an example of modernizing that still has many of us in a quandry -- writing a letter. The simple act of writing a one page document using pen and paper. We used to do it because we didn't have technology with which to communicate in a faster, earsier way. The hand-written document that was finally delivered was greeted with smiles and oohs and often with a rush of tears and warmth. Times have changed, technology is here and we have modernized the way we communicate. Here we communicate thought over thousands of kilometres instantly. Yet as valuable and immediate as this is, we don't feel the same emotion with which we once accepted an evelope. We don't consider the time it took, the thought it took to write it an email or a post. We can ignore the significant benefits of the hand-written document that include the labour, the thoughtfulness, the time. We simply take it as our due.

Druidy - my druidry at least - has to be applied to our(my) current world because this is the place and the time in which we(I) live. But in 'modernising' it I hope that we don't lose the qualities of a by-gone era that has drawn us in the first place. A place of connection to earth rather than ... airwaves. A place where green friends were regarded and used with respect.

Modern druidy (or neo-druidry) does not disregard the very real experiences I have in our natural world. No amount of time, knowledge (or lack thereof) can discount that. While trees may be taken from continent to continent, their juices are fed from ancient knowledge. I suggest that my own experience has been heightened by the knowledge of times past and how we both (a tree and I) come together in this new place - with new roots and new feet - with a shared known. If one comes to druidry solely from a modern perspective, that particular type of communication would not exist.

Peace,
T
/|\

[Heddwen]

I agree with you wholeheartedly but I think that it would be very difficult to be a modern day druid without at least a nod to the past. The past experience and knowledge combined with our up to date way of thinking makes for todays druidry. We cannot live in the past alone, even reconstructionists have a hard time doing this. Time changes everything and we must move along with it, incorporating all that we know.

[mabby]

This is a fascinating discussion and I agree with what you have all written. For me, druidry has taught me how to learn what i desire to know. It has taught me to focus, to pay attention to my environment, to see my home, the Earth, as a living, breathing thing. Am I going to learn to recognize each and every tree? No -- because my trees are not your trees. I live among cottonwood trees and I love everything about them. We don't have holly trees where I live, they only grow to be shrubs here. We don't have hazels, but I know where the witchhazels grow. I know where the osage orange grow and that their fruit not only is decorative and beautiful, but that it will repel insects and mice, so putting a bowl in the mudroom or the garage is practical. I don't know each and every star, but I probably know more that most astrologers do. But I could spend my entire lifetime learning the stars and not make a dent. We don't have badgers here (I wish we did), but I know where the fox lives, I know I can walk among wolves and not be afraid. The more time I spend in the natural world, the less fear I have. That is what druidry has taught me. So, if I can overcome fear just with a bit of knowledge and experience regarding the natural world, then I can do the same with our modern world. Druidry has taught me more about people and it has given me more tools to use with them when I speak my truth. It has taught me the power of the word, both spoken and written and it has taught me to use that power carefully and responsibly. We have to stop yelling, stop hurting people with our superior intellect. We need to give them vision, one that goes beyond their ears and mind and reaches the heart. THAT is how we change things. And we do it together, not just druids or wiccans, but everybody. These druids are very smart people, they know all of that and much, much more. That is why they make us start at the bard level. I have learned to trust them and to stop questioning so much and just shut up and learn more -- because I think I'm going to need it. I just keep remembering that the oak does not produce acorns until it is 50 years old.